'Boy Racer' laws and bikers?

[jrandom]

Overall I think it's a bad law, brought in on an emotive wave of public objection to a valid problem.

I agree.

There should be a single "driving or riding like a wanker" offence, with a lot of space and generality in the description of it to allow cops to use it on anyone that annoys them.

Then all we have to do is ensure that all the traffic cops are intelligent, fair and scrupulously honest.

[TonyB]

There are two main problems I have with this law. Say you’re riding or driving on one of NZ’s many sinuous roads- the type where the corners are tight enough that you can ‘go quickly’ without exceeding the speed limit. You come up behind a young boy racer in his lowered Corolla SR 2 door thing, in the passenger seat is his girlfriend. Master boy racer say’s “This guy wants 2 race, I’m gonna blow him in2 the weeds with muh phat ride!” and proceeds to drive as hard as the limitations of his car and abilities allow. HE thinks you’re racing him, his girlfreind thinks you’re racing him (it certainly feels very fast and scary to her), but in reality they’ve actually slowed you down and are just generally getting in the way.
Then they crash.
The driver is killed, but the girlfriend is OK. You stop to help etc and do everything you should do.
The girlfriend tells the police that you were racing them…what’s going to happen?
The two main problems I have with this are:
1) this law seems to imply that you can influence and are therefore responsible for the actions of the driver of the car, despite the fact that you have not spoken to him, made eye contact with him or communicated with him in any way whatsoever.
2) It is down to the perception of the witness as to wether you were racing or not. ‘Fast’ in a ‘sports’ car is very different to ‘fast’ on a sports bike, particularly if there are hills involved

[**R1**]

In a lot more words u said what i was thinking.....dicks in cars(and bikes) can fully think ya wana race or that you are racing, when in fact you just want their sorry arse outa the way, so ya can carry on enjoying tha ride.

[spudchucka]

Though I've heard of HP applying this bit to cover any "I don't like the way you were riding, but I can't pin anything specific on you" cases

It wouldn't stand up too well in Court, I think this is very unlikely.

The sustained loss of traction bit could presumably include wheelies and stoppies (locking a wheel under braking or lifting it off the deck is also loss of traction), but the Police already have a remedy for those, since they are considered dangerous driving. And it does have to be "sustained"

The sustained loss of traction offences were drafted specifically with burnouts & doughnuts in mind. Wheelies and stoppies are not what the legislation was intended for. These would be dealt with by way of a careless or dangerous charge depending on the circumstances.

Overall I think it's a bad law, brought in on an emotive wave of public objection to a valid problem.

The only bit that I think is really a horses arse is the unnecessary / excessive display of speed or acceleration part of the law. Its too subjective and needs to be more accurately defined.

It was as you say "brought in on an emotive wave of public objection to a valid problem". But so are many new laws, they get rushed through parliament, the pollies do a half arsed job and then pat themselves on the back for being such clever bastards while the rest of us have to try and make the laws work.

[madboy]

Then all we have to do is ensure that all the traffic cops are intelligent, fair and scrupulously honest.

Yep... and I can see the pink porky animals flying past my window just now.

I was in court years ago being charged with dangerous driving because when the police car behind me pulled me over I stopped quicker that he did, and they searched the history of my car (a rally car) and "Did you know that your turbo-charged vehicle used to have the numberplate "RACE1"?" Like WTF does that have to do with dangerous driving? But the point I make is that it's all about perception, and has been said here, fast and excessive in my books probably differs a lot from a judge/jury.

If my bike does, say, 0-100 in 3 sec, then a moderate take off for me could see that done in say 6. Well that's quicker than an HP car giving it death. Does that mean it's excessive? Well if said HP's wife is bonking his former best mate, his teenage daughter's pregnant and his uninsured son's just written off the family car - you can bet your ass it's excessive. On the other hand, if he's intelligent, fair and scrupulously honest then it's not.

You tell me

[spudchucka]

There are two main problems I have with this law. Say you’re riding or driving on one of NZ’s many sinuous roads- the type where the corners are tight enough that you can ‘go quickly’ without exceeding the speed limit. You come up behind a young boy racer in his lowered Corolla SR 2 door thing, in the passenger seat is his girlfriend. Master boy racer say’s “This guy wants 2 race, I’m gonna blow him in2 the weeds with muh phat ride!” and proceeds to drive as hard as the limitations of his car and abilities allow. HE thinks you’re racing him, his girlfreind thinks you’re racing him (it certainly feels very fast and scary to her), but in reality they’ve actually slowed you down and are just generally getting in the way.
Then they crash.
The driver is killed, but the girlfriend is OK. You stop to help etc and do everything you should do.
The girlfriend tells the police that you were racing them…what’s going to happen?
The two main problems I have with this are:
1) this law seems to imply that you can influence and are therefore responsible for the actions of the driver of the car, despite the fact that you have not spoken to him, made eye contact with him or communicated with him in any way whatsoever.
2) It is down to the perception of the witness as to wether you were racing or not. ‘Fast’ in a ‘sports’ car is very different to ‘fast’ on a sports bike, particularly if there are hills involved

The laws were intended for the sort of urban illegal race and burnout events that are common on any Friday & Saturday night. The situation you describe would be stretching what parliament intended when drafting the law.

[MSTRS:Me]

the pollies do a half arsed job and then pat themselves on the back for being such clever bastards while the rest of us have to try and make the laws work.

Too true.....any way a law is worded will leave loopholes, and the deliberate obtuseness of some leaves even more to be desired. Governments get it wrong more than we do??

[TonyB]

The laws were intended for the sort of urban illegal race and burnout events that are common on any Friday & Saturday night. The situation you describe would be stretching what parliament intended when drafting the law.

That's nice to know. But if one of Master Boyracers relatives happens to be a shit hot lawyer, or mum and dad can afford one, you could be in trouble, right?
Parliment never intended the words "in the spirit of the Treaty of Waitangi" to open a huge can of worms, but it happened anyway.

[Silage]

Some weeks ago OneArmedBandito related being pulled up in Chch by a bikie cop for lifting the front wheel a little on take off.

If you are reading this OAB I have been wondering, was it this new law that they were throwing at you or the old "dangerous driving" bit. Also, is there any progress on your case (just out of interest)?

[spudchucka]

If it was under the boy racer law then it was to do with the acceleration aspect of the incident. The front wheel leaving the ground alone does not fit the legislation.

[ghost]

The laws were intended for the sort of urban illegal race and burnout events that are common on any Friday & Saturday night. The situation you describe would be stretching what parliament intended when drafting the law.

My opinion is this is where bad laws originate from, "intent" is to open to interpretation and application, in my simple little world all laws would be clear and consise, you wouldnt need umpteen dollar lawyers to "interpret" these for me if you found yourself on the wrong side. But thats only in my world (it gets dark and lonely in here sometimes)(who said that?)

Good straight forward, easy to understand laws, would make everyones life/job easier. I would even write my own ticket if i got caught Spud.

[Krusti]

Ban traffic lights! They only incite drag racing. All intersections should have scantily clad babes with stop go flags. At least then we will not be in a hurry to move on.

[Lou Girardin]

Despite what our esteemed resident Pleece man says, the law is loose enough for a cop to nail you if you didn't pass the attitude test. The same test he has admitted using.
Nearly any normal take-off by a bike is excessive by car standards and as for the 'racing clause', has anyone considered the case of a group ride. If the group is checked at 120 km/h, is that racing?
I would prefer to not rely on some cops goodwill.

[Mongoose]

Despite what our esteemed resident Pleece man says, the law is loose enough for a cop to nail you if you didn't pass the attitude test. The same test he has admitted using.
Nearly any normal take-off by a bike is excessive by car standards and as for the 'racing clause', has anyone considered the case of a group ride. If the group is checked at 120 km/h, is that racing?
I would prefer to not rely on some cops goodwill.

Much the same as under the old Traffic Snake days. Mind you, there was not a lot of goodwill in those days either, but enough curly laws that made a ticket avaliable for every stop should said snake want to do it

[Ixion]

Much the same as under the old Traffic Snake days. Mind you, there was not a lot of goodwill in those days either, but enough curly laws that made a ticket avaliable for every stop should said snake want to do it

No man ever lacked for a stick wherewith to beat a dog.

But the old MoT bike cops were pretty reasonable IME. Worst I ever got was a stiff warning.(And that was the guy who followed me up the Northern Motorway as I tried to push the Speed Twin over 90mph. I didn't see him because I had my head inside the petrol tank, as one does). I think it probably helped that (I think - open to correction) all the MoT guys had to qualify on bikes. So at least they'd done some time on a bike. Whereas now a lot of the HP have never ridden a bike, don't want to, and have the the standard "Dangerous things, should be banned" stereotype attitude toward them (Obviously, not all HP !. The bike HP cops must be keen bikers, I assume that they volunteer for the bike duty) .

Auckland City Council cops weren't too bad either, the ones that could be *real* pricks were the ones on the little councils. Back then councils could elect to run there own traffic department. They got to keep the fines, and it was a good money maker for some of the small councils. Usually they only had one cop, and if you were an out of towner you were fair game. Some of the towns on the roads back from the ski fields were notorious. Otahuhu Borough Council was bad too, unless you belonged to the local Rugby Club !.