There's no hope

**James Deuce** · 29th March 2005, 10:44

Originally Posted by outlawtorn

Dammit!

I reckon to get this right we'll have to form a committee to roundtable the idea, then it must get approved, then we must form another committee to put the idea into action, thereafter sub-committee's will be formed to work on each aspect of the rules, then a comittee shall be formed to correspond between each sub-committee and make sure that they are all doing their job fairly and without any unjust objections. I think......

Excellent. I'll start applying for funding...

**flyin** · 29th March 2005, 11:28

thats sounds like the go jim, the most important thing now is to secure an approporiate office to accomodate these committies and sub-committies, now we need an HR comitte so no-one is treated unjustly, oh and lets get onto sorting an I.T. team so our committies can streamline their email and communicate efficiantly with other committies.......

**flyin** · 29th March 2005, 11:34

sounds like a really good system though. i have applied it to myself (not totaly because i wanted...) my first cage was an 1100 escort, skiny tyres meant enuff power to get me sideways at 23km.....hmmmm then onto corolla's yeah go the mighty 1300 4k, done huge kms in it and a few driving courses, (manfield open days and such) and still i know the car has more in than my ability(cos my m8 can beat my times in it...) rebuilt it all myself and proceeded to blow it up myself... put it in the garage and got a bike for transport.......... hmmm
havn't touched it since...... but i have been learning all i can bout riding a 250! again ple ty of power to get me to the speedlimit while not being ridicuilous......gunna wait till i have my full b4 i upgrade too!! oh if only everyone was taught well.
anyways i'm gunna stick with learning all i can whatever i am riding/driving at the time, and keep keeping myself alive!!

**James Deuce** · 29th March 2005, 11:36

Originally Posted by flyin

thats sounds like the go jim, the most important thing now is to secure an approporiate office to accomodate these committies and sub-committies, now we need an HR comitte so no-one is treated unjustly, oh and lets get onto sorting an I.T. team so our committies can streamline their email and communicate efficiantly with other committies.......

I hereby designate you Chief Operations Officer (refferred to subsequently as COO) of the Parliamentary Sub Committee for the investigation of the effects of restricting access to vehicles for "learner" (Provisional and Restricted License holders) drivers in a BiCultural Aotearoa.

**Sniper** · 29th March 2005, 11:42

Better them than me

**jrandom** · 29th March 2005, 11:53

Originally Posted by flyin

i have been learning all i can bout riding a 250! again ple ty of power to get me to the speedlimit while not being ridicuilous......gunna wait till i have my full b4 i upgrade too!!

Good man.

You punt that ZZR250 like a pro, I'm sure Melon's ego is a bit dented after the weekend.

You'll be a force to be reckoned with once you get on a Proper Bike, and it's great to see you taking your time and being sensible about it.

**Wolf** · 29th March 2005, 12:06

Originally Posted by outlawtorn

I reckon, just like bikes have, we have the following scenario:

Age Engine Modifications
16-18 1200cc (Max) None
19-21 1400cc (Max) None
21-25 1600cc + None
25+ 1600cc + Yes (Including turbo and all that kind of stuff)

Or something like the above, I don't know, it's just an idea, but I can't stand seeing or hearing the young kids are dead, no parent should ever bury their child.

Comments? Suggestions? Hate Mail? Insults?

Not quite like bikes, I note.

More bike-like would be to deem all 1200s to be "safe" enough for Learners and Restricted Licences including fully raced ones (to better equate to the disparity between 250cc commuters and RGV250s) and then they can drive anything once they get their full licence.

In all seriousness, I do believe cars should have a graded system similar to what bikes have.

There are a lot of people out there blatting around a lot faster than they can safely handle - in some cases, that safe level is below the actual legal speed limit. Forcing cagers to drive less powerful cars until they have had time to practice safe driving techniques would be a good idea.

Even if the system is:

Learners and Restricted - unmodified 1200cc (Max)
Full - No restrictions

it would still be an improvement over the current system. Let them learn in something that is less likely to rocket them past what their level of experience can handle - "speed", per se, might not be an absolute killer but travelling way faster than you can safely go is an extremely risky proposition.

**Ixion** · 29th March 2005, 12:16

Originally Posted by Wolf

Not quite like bikes, I note.

More bike-like would be to deem all 1200s to be "safe" enough for Learners and Restricted Licences including fully raced ones (to better equate to the disparity between 250cc commuters and RGV250s) and then they can drive anything once they get their full licence.

The poroblem with this is that so many youngsters learn to drive (ie practice, once they have their learners) in the "family car". Even if they take driving school lessons they still do "extra time" in the family vehicle

A lot of the time dad's or Mum's car wouldn't qualify as a learner grade.

So they would be limited to "Driving school only" time, which is undesireable. There are advantages to learners being able to put in a lot of time practicing (under supervision), more time than most could afford at a driving school.

With bikes it's different because you can assume that a learner biker will need to buy his/her own bike - not so with cars.

And even a "Mum's car" nowadays can probably hit 160+ kph.

Realistically anyway, does the graduated system on bikes serve any purpose ? Whats the top speed of a 250cc sports bike? Over 200kph I think.

So the bike learner can still legally go out on a 200+ kph machine. (Only supposed to do 70 on a L plate , but if they're going to speed anyway that's pretty irrelevant)

**Motu** · 29th March 2005, 12:19

Originally Posted by Jim2

I hereby designate you Chief Operations Officer (refferred to subsequently as COO) of the Parliamentary Sub Committee for the investigation of the effects of restricting access to vehicles for "learner" (Provisional and Restricted License holders) drivers in a BiCultural Aotearoa.

Can I be in charge of motor vehicle importation? There are currently very few sub 1000cc cars for learners - I propose that I alone have the import licence for sub 1000cc micro cars,I will bring in heaps of Nissan March's,Daihatsu Mira's,Honda Cities and Toyota Starlets,maybe I'll buy a big ship of my own.This will be a good move,as these things are so slow,like I doubt if they can go much faster than 160kph,safe enough for any teenager - and anyway,these things are so flimsy they will only kill themselves,and their occupants in a crash.

I will aslo set up another business supplying 1600,1800 and 2000cc engines as a retofit,body kits and turbos.Let's do it!!!

**James Deuce** · 29th March 2005, 12:21

Originally Posted by Motu

Can I be in charge of motor vehicle importation? There are currently very few sub 1000cc cars for learners - I propose that I alone have the import licence for sub 1000cc micro cars,I will bring in heaps of Nissan March's,Daihatsu Mira's,Honda Cities and Toyota Starlets,maybe I'll buy a big ship of my own.This will be a good move,as these things are so slow,like I doubt if they can go much faster than 160kph,safe enough for any teenager - and anyway,these things are so flimsy they will only kill themselves,and their occupants in a crash.

I will aslo set up another business supplying 1600,1800 and 2000cc engines as a retofit,body kits and turbos.Let's do it!!!

Done!

Report to Te Puni Kokiri for Cultural Re-Education tomorrow at 9am please.

**scumdog** · 29th March 2005, 12:30

Originally Posted by Ixion

Logically therefore you would support the mandatory fitment of speed limiters that prevented any vehicle exceeding 100kph ? And would fit one to your own bike ?

How many others on this site would support such a rule ?

Completely logical if you accept that it all the demon speed that's to blame

Hah! Please feel free to remove the hook and bait from your mouth.......

**Ixion** · 29th March 2005, 12:32

Originally Posted by Motu

...
But the guy in front of me was a white boy,and he was in a spot of bother - he would stall the car,in panic try and start it up again...but he didn't know how to do that even...out of gear,wobble the lever,play around with the key,he didn't have a bloody clue.His girl friend gave him a hug,but it didn't help...he just kept stalling - HE COULDN"T FUCKING DRIVE!!!!! ...

In charity, maybe he was having engine probs. Especially if the traffic was so heavy. I've had cars that would start run OK until they got some load on them, then faaaaaaaaaaadddddddddde and die. Restart, rev up, OK, engage clutch, splutter and die. Restart, rinse lather repeat.

Can be due to all sorts of things, which you will know far more of than I

Could have made anyone pretty flustered if they had that sort of problem in heavy traffic

**Motu** · 29th March 2005, 12:51

Originally Posted by Ixion

In charity, maybe he was having engine probs. Especially if the traffic was so heavy. I've had cars that would start run OK until they got some load on them, then faaaaaaaaaaadddddddddde and die. Restart, rev up, OK, engage clutch, splutter and die. Restart, rinse lather repeat.

Can be due to all sorts of things, which you will know far more of than I

Could have made anyone pretty flustered if they had that sort of problem in heavy traffic

No,I was directly behind him,looks like he still had the handbrake on most of the time,but was so flustered when he did let the brake off he still stalled it...some gear grinding too.The motor was running fine - I think he just had all the sequences wrong...foot on clutch,put into gear,bring up revs...no that's too much..SHIT! stalled..oh,handbrake...let's try it again.

Actualy it's not a bad way to learn really - out on the open road,get the steering,throttle and brake control sorted,then move onto slow speed clutch,steering and brake control...but not in holiday traffic.(um,it's how I taught myself to ride and drive.I got pushed down the road on my Bantam and didn't stop till I ran out of gas,lucky it didn't have much in it,those things could run for a week on a tank full)