There's no hope

[Paul in NZ]

Well, I just don't know about all this...

I've gone that fast on the bike and on occasion in cars but I'm somewhat conservative in the risk taking business and have thus far been lucky enough to get away with it...

Recognising that we were not there and certainly don't know much in the way of facts about this 'accident' other than a bunch of people are very dead, perhaps we ought to elevate the discussion to some root causes instead of blaming individuals.

As a species, we LOVE to go fast. A lot of mans technological advances have revolved around the increase of speed in transportation. It's only in recent years that this has got to the stage where we may be reaching the edge of our ability to control our lust for speed.

A generation ago, this was recognised and we saw the end of the muscle car era. Now, we have vehicles that are considerably more powerful but also handle a lot better etc etc. Usually the aggresive use of these vehicles is restricted by budget. ie, your average boy racer cannot afford the latest HSV V8 or EVO 9. But sadly, they can emulate some of their features relatively cheaply and can buy older versions as well...

Where is all this going?

Well, perhaps, we either need to collectively (as a society) say that we cannot afford these vehicles and limit their use and importation.. (or add a high performance tax or something) OR we need to realise that this sort of thing is a facet of human behaviour and bloody hard to do much about - thus stop wringing your hands and whining in the news paper when something goes wrong... As it will... Dunno what is worse really..

We glorify performance in the media, yet we demonise those that fall for the dream (and admittedly get it wrong).

Perhaps we need to look at ourselves a little here. Is this a sensless road accident or another victim of the sawn off shotgun of modern marketing?

Complicated thing life....

Paul N

[Ixion]

Of course not, NOBODY on this site believes speed has any relationship to crashing/injury/death!!

Speed is just a 'thing' made up by the govt. to explain away why people crash and get hurt, it doesn't actually exist - or have you not been following the various threads pertaining to speed?

Logically therefore you would support the mandatory fitment of speed limiters that prevented any vehicle exceeding 100kph ? And would fit one to your own bike ?

How many others on this site would support such a rule ?

Completely logical if you accept that it all the demon speed that's to blame

[vifferman]

BTW. No-one said that he was doing 200 when the accident happened, the reports were 130 -140. He was boasting of 200 plus. Which allowing for mental speedo error was about 180.

Who knows how fast the guy was going, or what he was doing. But I agree with you that what the mother of the other boy had said was stupid. "Good clean fun", my arse. There's little clean about bodies and car parts strewn all over the countryside...

BTW - your letter to the editor in The Harold this morning was well-written, Lou.

[Motu]

Don't want to start another thread - 'there's no hope' sounds good for this one.

We didn't want to get involved in the holiday traffic so left to go south from Auckland mid afternoon friday...but the traffic was still heavy and we stopped at Pokeno.The first thing I noticed was all the cars around me were full of Asians (back off racial police! One of my biggest bits of safety kit is observation of my surroundings,who and what is on the road around me.I have noticed that on the open road we see very few ''ethnic'' drivers - Pacific Islanders,Asians,Middles East and Indian Subcontinent,they are city drivers and seldon venture onto the open road) Just interesting I thought.

But the guy in front of me was a white boy,and he was in a spot of bother - he would stall the car,in panic try and start it up again...but he didn't know how to do that even...out of gear,wobble the lever,play around with the key,he didn't have a bloody clue.His girl friend gave him a hug,but it didn't help...he just kept stalling - HE COULDN"T FUCKING DRIVE!!!!! in the end after the cars were half a km in front of him I drove around the left side of him,so did everyone else.

Scary...he was out there,totaly out of his depth in a car,in holiday traffic....I'm glad I met him at walking pace....

I turned off at Mercer,went over the bridge and came down to Rangariri from the otherside.

[Motu]

My heart goes out to the family of the kids who died, it is a tragedy to die at such as young age.

Once again this begs the question "If bikers have to sit through a graduation system for bikes, then so should kids in cars".

Tragic man....

They were only in a Honda Civic...we can't get Morris Minor's anymore - what small car limit do you suggsest?...bring back the Lada?

[MikeL]

I too found the mother's comments surprising and I would expect that in time she will come to view these tragic events differently. However it is pointless and insensitive to vilify her for comments which reflect a desperate attempt to come to terms with a sudden, shocking and meaningless loss of lives.
There are deeper issues here which require both dispassionate and compassionate discussion...

[inlinefour]

People just do not care about anyone else these days. Society becomes more self centered and take the attitude "F" anyone else. With parents with this sort of shyte arttitude it is no wonder that the next generation are wiping themselves, and sadly others out. Sad bit is though for the next generation, they have really no hope and unless they rebel against these attitudes then they are screwed (and so are the rest of us!).

[Lucyloo]

"no-one was to blame, it was just an accident".

It is an absolute tragedy that lives were lost, but if speed was involved then the driver was most certainly to blame as he had contol of the car!

In my opinion, there are very few if any "accidents". Most vehicle "crashes" are caused by speed, drving beyond ones abilities, being distracted or just plain stupidity.

Unfortunately as many of us probably remember being young means that we think we are invincible. Sadly in this instance the deceased were not!

[outlawtorn]

They were only in a Honda Civic...we can't get Morris Minor's anymore - what small car limit do you suggsest?...bring back the Lada?

I reckon, just like bikes have, we have the following scenario:

Age Engine Modifications
16-18 1200cc (Max) None
19-21 1400cc (Max) None
21-25 1600cc + None
25+ 1600cc + Yes (Including turbo and all that kind of stuff)

Or something like the above, I don't know, it's just an idea, but I can't stand seeing or hearing the young kids are dead, no parent should ever bury their child.

Comments? Suggestions? Hate Mail? Insults?

[vifferman]

I reckon, just like bikes have, we have the following scenario:

Age Engine Modifications
16-18 1200cc (Max) None
19-21 1400cc (Max) None
21-25 1600cc + None
25+ 1600cc + Yes (Including turbo and all that kind of stuff)

That's kinda already done (albeit indirectly) through the insurance premiums.

It is an absolute tragedy that lives were lost, but if speed was involved then the driver was most certainly to blame as he had contol of the car!

Or, in fact, he was to blame because he wasn't driving in such a manner as to have full control of the car.

[James Deuce]

I reckon, just like bikes have, we have the following scenario:

Age Engine Modifications
16-18 1200cc (Max) None
19-21 1400cc (Max) None
21-25 1600cc + None
25+ 1600cc + Yes (Including turbo and all that kind of stuff)

Or something like the above, I don't know, it's just an idea, but I can't stand seeing or hearing the young kids are dead, no parent should ever bury their child.

Comments? Suggestions? Hate Mail? Insults?

I'd love to see something like that. The problem with your suggestion is that it is simple, clear cut, simple to administer, a therefore unworkable.

Please create something more confusing.

1/5

[outlawtorn]

we could always confuse it by introducing courses to every level which permits drivers to upgrade to the next level before their birthday, but if they were born before June 5th then they can upgrade automatically but only if their parents consent to a bigger car without modifications except where permitting they can put in a lowered suspension and those really cheesy rims which keep on spinning once the car has stopped OR they can upgfrade to the next license level if there sound system is louder than the actual car itself.....

[Lucyloo]

Or, in fact, he was to blame because he wasn't driving in such a manner as to have full control of the car.

Thank you....you said that much better than I did!

[James Deuce]

we could always confuse it by introducing courses to every level which permits drivers to upgrade to the next level before their birthday, but if they were born before June 5th then they can upgrade automatically but only if their parents consent to a bigger car without modifications except where permitting they can put in a lowered suspension and those really cheesy rims which keep on spinning once the car has stopped OR they can upgfrade to the next license level if there sound system is louder than the actual car itself.....

Better. 3/5 as you ignored the Cultural Safety Component

[outlawtorn]

Better. 3/5 as you ignored the Cultural Safety Component

Dammit!

I reckon to get this right we'll have to form a committee to roundtable the idea, then it must get approved, then we must form another committee to put the idea into action, thereafter sub-committee's will be formed to work on each aspect of the rules, then a comittee shall be formed to correspond between each sub-committee and make sure that they are all doing their job fairly and without any unjust objections. I think......