Headlights on all the time

[Ixion]

Genuine question here:

Something that interests me regarding not being capable of running with lights on during the daytime...How do these bikes get on with night riding? Are they only capable of running lights at night for a limited period?
Even my original 1953 Ariel could run with its lights on at night and therefore during the day as well...despite having the most primitive of electrical systems...I rode from Christchurch to Dunedin at night once and the lights did keep going (amazingly enough I admit).
I don't think any bike I have owned would have been in too much trouble having its lights on during the day. Apart from the times ( i.e. mostly) when the CVC regulator was on the blink of course...

Two considerations

One, your Ariel had a magneto for ignition. SO your ignition did not need the battery at all.

Second, all bikes after the acetylene era are of course quite capable of running their headlight during daylight hours. Or, during night time hours.

The problem comes when you need to run it *constantly*. The old dynamo (and, pace PiNZ, early alternator) systems were not able to keep up with the current demands of ignition (assuming coil ignition) headlamp, taillamp and stoplamp until the motor was running at about 3000 rpm (very roughly).If then.

Which is fine on the open road. But prolonged time around town, the battery *WILL* be drawn down.

Now, in the original design mode, lights on only at night, that's no problem. Go out at night, lot of round town work, headlamp on, sitting at the lights foot on the brake, battery gets drawn down. But, fine, it's not going to completely flatten in one night's riding. Get home, go out next morning in daytime, no headlamp, dyno recharges battery. All good. Repeat as often as required. That's the paradigm the designers worked to.

But now, headlamp on during day: run it down at night, next day when you go out, it *doesn't* get a chance to recharge. Instead, it runs down a bit more. And a bit more the next day. And a bit more the next night. Repeat. And before too long, the battery is too low to supply a decent spark at startup. Bike no start. Much much worse of course for early 80s bikes with no kickstart, only an electric starter, and still marginal alternators.

Noone is suggesting that older bikes headlamps will NOT WORK during daytime. Or that a single day will flatten the battery. But, unless you only use the bike for open road work, after a while it WILL run down. Probably at the most inconvenient moment.

[slofox]

Two considerations

One, your Ariel had a magneto for ignition. SO your ignition did not need the battery at all.

Second, all bikes after the acetylene era are of course quite capable of running their headlight during daylight hours. Or, during night time hours.

The problem comes when you need to run it *constantly*. The old dynamo (and, pace PiNZ, early alternator) systems were not able to keep up with the current demands of ignition (assuming coil ignition) headlamp, taillamp and stoplamp until the motor was running at about 3000 rpm (very roughly).If then.

Which is fine on the open road. But prolonged time around town, the battery *WILL* be drawn down.

Now, in the original design mode, lights on only at night, that's no problem. Go out at night, lot of round town work, headlamp on, sitting at the lights foot on the brake, battery gets drawn down. But, fine, it's not going to completely flatten in one night's riding. Get home, go out next morning in daytime, no headlamp, dyno recharges battery. All good. Repeat as often as required. That's the paradigm the designers worked to.

But now, headlamp on during day: run it down at night, next day when you go out, it *doesn't* get a chance to recharge. Instead, it runs down a bit more. And a bit more the next day. And a bit more the next night. Repeat. And before too long, the battery is too low to supply a decent spark at startup. Bike no start. Much much worse of course for early 80s bikes with no kickstart, only an electric starter, and still marginal alternators.

Noone is suggesting that older bikes headlamps will NOT WORK during daytime. Or that a single day will flatten the battery. But, unless you only use the bike for open road work, after a while it WILL run down. Probably at the most inconvenient moment.

Hey, thanks Ixion, that makes good sense.

Yes, the Ariel did have a magneto - about the only thing electrical that worked well actually - so as you say, no ignition current drawn from charging system.

Dynamo worked fine mostly but regulators were always up the shit. When, on rare occasions, they did work, the dynamo would drive the lights without a battery (as I found out when the battery fell off one night..we won't go into that episode either thank you very much). No brake lights either in them dim dark days, nor indimacators neither. And of course kick start. So yes, there was very little to power.

I stand enlightened...(no pun intended).

[Dodgyiti]

Oh FFS.... Apart from a few dire mopeds nearly all old bikes can run with headlights on 100% with a little care and stuff all expense...

...

And you can honestly say running your Guzzi around town, stop start, short run then start it up then short run your battery is fine?
Have you ever tried it for a few weeks?
I use my one for that type of stuff and with the headlight on all the time, like when its overcast or poor visibility or winter -the battery starts to go flat.
3,200rpm- correct me if I'm wrong- is the point when the charging system fully kicks in on the LeMans. Stop start around Auckland and you are barely doing that for seconds at a time. Add to that the constant drain from starting it up and there will be a time to push start it.
Fun fun fun.

Open road, not a problem and I run 55/60 blue light halogen. I just hate my choices being taken away from me.

[MaxB]

http://landtransport.govt.nz/rules/q...le-2009.html#4

Mopeds and motorcycles riders are required to ride with their headlamps on or, if fitted, daytime running lamps, during daylight hours. This requirement applies only to riders of mopeds or motorcycles manufactured after 1 January1980.

Thanks for that link. My ol' girl is '76 so I can ride surrounded by darkness!

I'll probably fit running lights to the other bikes, just don't feel comfortable on low beam all the time.

A guy at work made a good point. Headlamps are designed for lighting up the road ahead. A lot of dip lenses are very severe. Running lights are designed to be seen and have lenses focussed for this purpose. Why not make new bikes with running lights from now on and the problem would sort itself out in time without the need for yet another law.

[FJRider]

A few of the "other" changes being made ... very interesting. Cyclists will no longer be required to indicate a change of direction at roundabouts..... mmmmm with the reason given ... its too difficult for them ????

and posties will soon be legally allowed to ride on the footpath.

[scumdog]

A guy at work made a good point. Headlamps are designed for lighting up the road ahead. A lot of dip lenses are very severe. Running lights are designed to be seen and have lenses focussed for this purpose.

Hence why normajeane (CB) and I have them on our bikes.

A headlight beam does not spread out far enough to be easily seen by somebody on a side-road during the day for exmple - running lights are way more visible and having two of them plus the headlight really helps the 'being visible' thing

[laRIKin]

http://landtransport.govt.nz/rules/q...le-2009.html#4

Mopeds and motorcycles riders are required to ride with their headlamps on or, if fitted, daytime running lamps, during daylight hours. This requirement applies only to riders of mopeds or motorcycles manufactured after 1 January1980.

Bugger my old Moto Guzzi MKIII is an 81, but the charging system is a lot older than that. (Mid sixty's early seventy's)

On the open road I'm fine around town it will not be charging as you have to pull higher rev's (about 2500) to get it to work.
Guzzi's need a good battery to start the old girls.

Got a good reason to speed around town now.
Or could be looking for a push start.

[RDjase]

I read a article some were(trying to find it) about a study on day time bike headlight use that said it made it more difficult to judge the distance of an approaching motorcycle and it made the bike look FURTHER AWAY than it actualy was. It carried on that in some states (US or AUS, cant remember till i find article) were compulsary headlight use was made legal, that there was more accidents(from people saying they thought the bike was futher away) and they changed the laws back.

Has anyone else read or heard of it before?

I ride with my lights on , My duke is a US model and always (mostly) did when i used my LC on the road

[Paul in NZ]

And you can honestly say running your Guzzi around town, stop start, short run then start it up then short run your battery is fine?
Have you ever tried it for a few weeks?
.

Yes - never had an issue but then I maintain my electrical system 'cos I'm an electrical type.

If its an issue - by a cheap battery tender and wire in a socket and top off the battery at night - all the bits can be upgraded cheaper than almost anything else on the bike but the thing is most folks would rather spend on paint or engine mods...

Dynamos can be repaired, replaced, regulators replaced with solid state etc. - it aint that hard. You could rig a smaller running light to satisfy the law.

[YellowDog]

What might be interesting to find out is whether the headlight on all of the time rule has an illumination power standard associated to it.

I was just thinking that if the low watt parking light was illuminated whilst riding, this would not present any overload issues.

Some have suggested an AUX LED which would be an easy solution, but may compromise the appearance.

[Paul in NZ]

I was thinking about my reply this morning (early) and though - hmm - being a bit unfair here as where I live means a highway trip is needed to go nearly anyplace.

BUT - the Guzzi is my highway bike and it has highway lights - if I was mainly town running I'd go for a lower wattage up front maybe...

Installing relays, extra grounds, applying the fixes in guzziology, decent alt brushes and a regular contact clean plus a clean of the diode board keeps everything ticking along OK though (Mk2 has handy VM)

Gains can be made everywhere on all old bike by using a few modern tricks.

[Dargor]

It will be funny if crash numbers dont go down in the next couple of years. Then we will know that this is a useless law, and it will stick arround for centuries to come and be a problem for only a few people.

[Voltaire]

Here it is...after many minutes in the garage....introducing the " Joyce Helmlight"

This should suffice to save you classic bike owners a hundy when the cops pull you over....thats assuming you are not already broken down on the side of the road already.

Combines all the safety features of Cork lined open face pudding bowl helmet with cool Bomber Command ( Dambusters ) goggles.

Be safe and stylish this summer with a New "Joyce Helmlight"

" You'll not be a dimwit with a Helmlight"

[CookMySock]

A headlight beam does not spread out far enough to be easily seen by somebody on a side-road during the day for exmple - running lights are way more visible and having two of them plus the headlight really helps the 'being visible' thing

Same thing occurs with projector headlamps, particularly so the cheap Hyosung ones - the focus isn't that good, and consequently they are bright in all directions - great for being seen. Add to that a HID bulb and theres no way to hide now.

Steve

[What?]

I read a article some were(trying to find it) about a study on day time bike headlight use that said it made it more difficult to judge the distance of an approaching motorcycle and it made the bike look FURTHER AWAY than it actualy was.

I have come across a few articles on the subject over the years - they all said this was the danger of using high beam in daytime. One mag (Cycle World, I think, but don't quote me), actually went so far as to get a heap of people to estimate how far away a bike was with headlight alternately on high and then low beams. The results were , well, let's say I never ride using high beam in the daytime...