86km in a 100km zone = speeding ticket?

[FROSTY:Me]

Sleeman --EXACTLY my point.
-My memory is fucked but what do ya call a LEARNER pilot who hasn't done their cross countrys yet?? -still restricted to the local area.
You wouldn't get me flying a light aircraft into heathrow or LAX with the jetwash and heavy traffic in and out. Just like say ohh I dunno --a learner rider on the motorway in rushhour. Information overload.
Oshkosh is more like throwing a novice rider out on the track at a nationals meet with F1 F2 and F3 on the track at the same time

[Laxi]

motorcycling! the rebels hobby!

[sleemanj]

Sleeman --EXACTLY my point.
-My memory is fucked but what do ya call a LEARNER pilot who hasn't done their cross countrys yet??

Usually, a student pilot still. It's technically possible at 40 hrs to sit your PPL and get it without endorsement for cross country, you're still a qualified pilot, you're just crap at navigating so any excursion away from the local area (don't know the distance, probably 50nm or something) will require approval. I'd be surprised if anybody gets a non-endorsed license in reality.

Just like say ohh I dunno --a learner rider on the motorway in rushhour. Information overload.

We do not disagree! I absolutely see that there are times and places for learner riders to be, and that the motorway in rush hour isn't one of them!

BUT, just saying "don't go faster than 70k" isn't enough, if you say that without also saying "and don't go to these places" then the message doesn't come through properly and we get people going on these bad places and either doing 70k and causing a danger, or doing 100k and breaking the law.

So what I'm saying is that this law is wrong, not because it's trying to limit learners, but because it's doing it in a terrible way.

Limiting roads, or conditions, or something else (I don't know, suggestions) would be great, some sort of better training before getting let loose than the BHS (which from memory of 17 years ago was surely some kind of joke) would be great, but just saying "go for it, just not faster than 70k" causes more problem than it seeks to solve, in my opinion.

In my opinion, and I accept that it's pretty contentious, the motorcycle graduated licence in NZ, is badly designed and it produces bad riders on the whole (and I freely admit I'm probably one of them, but at least I know it) because there is basically ZERO requirement for any training, it's all left up to the rider to figure out as they go along.

[Katman]

then Im sorry if Im doing a katman onya.

You wish.

[MSTRS:Me]

....F1 F2 and F3 on the track at the same time

Sounds just like any public road at any time of the day or night.
I don't often disagree with you, mate, and whilst I see exactly where you're coming from, I have to say that, overall, I think the 70kph learner thing is bad law. I say that, because it's intent is to restrict a learner to a speed that shouldn't overload their ability to control their machine. Great. It was eminently sensible and practical when it was imposed (early 80's?) but traffic volumes and driver behaviour has changed markedly in that time...meaning that anyone seriously out of step with the flow is risking potentially greater disaster than adding 25/30kph to their own speed and staying with the flow.
Do we have trouble with scooterists sitting to the left, doing 45 when 'everyone else' is doing 50+? Often enough, we do. Double the traffic speed and increase the differential...

[SixPackBack]

If you can't ride at 100kmh you should not be on the road........dumbest law ever!

[lanci]

My friend was unfortunate to be pulled over doing 114k in a 100k zone with no L plate on... The policeman said he was being kind by not taking his license for exceeding his 70k limit by 40k but a $855 ticket later... I guess that is kind.

[marty]

there's a lot of discussion about that. the 40k licence loss only occurs at 40k over the posted or actual speed limit. 70k is only a condition of the licence. exceeding this by any amount is $400/25 demerits. the $855 sounds like no L plate, exceeds 70k, and not producing his licence.

[DVS 69]

They are just a pack of wankers, ive had mega tickets this year, i drive alot everyday for work and see the strangest shit going on on "our" roads and wonder why i always get hammerd. In times past they used to let ya off with a warning now they just cant wait to get there little books out. Its a control thing they want everyone to be robots, i would happily take my tickets on the chin if i thought i was driving dangerous or recklessly but fark tickets on straight roads doing like 8 kph over the limit and no other traffic on the road ....... What a joke man . Of course they all say .... Well you can write in and see what happens. Its a crock of shit they all back eachother to the hilt. Then again its the biggest legal gang in NZ. One thing is for sure the controls and laws in this country are only gunna get worse. For the record i would consider myself to a be a normal hard working "kiwi" who pays a shitload of tax each year. Ive never had a insurance claim or even a car crash. Its a joke and its soo easy to feel picked on i arnt the nicest person to them when i get pulled up anymore cos there aint no point they gunna sting ya regardless.

[kunoichi]

BUT, just saying "don't go faster than 70k" isn't enough, if you say that without also saying "and don't go to these places" then the message doesn't come through properly and we get people going on these bad places and either doing 70k and causing a danger, or doing 100k and breaking the law.

So what I'm saying is that this law is wrong, not because it's trying to limit learners, but because it's doing it in a terrible way.

Limiting roads, or conditions, or something else (I don't know, suggestions) would be great, some sort of better training before getting let loose than the BHS (which from memory of 17 years ago was surely some kind of joke) would be great, but just saying "go for it, just not faster than 70k" causes more problem than it seeks to solve, in my opinion.

In my opinion, and I accept that it's pretty contentious, the motorcycle graduated licence in NZ, is badly designed and it produces bad riders on the whole (and I freely admit I'm probably one of them, but at least I know it) because there is basically ZERO requirement for any training, it's all left up to the rider to figure out as they go along.

I agree with you here. Firstly, if they limited the rule of the 70k coupled with only the use of 80k road max, then indeed i would of taken the last exit onto the bridge and taken the first exit after, but the law doesn't state that so you assume you have a right to be in the 100km zone. In my opinion, it is dangerous to be going at 70km while everyone is whisking past you, some even tooting their horns and giving you a bit of a scare, it's much easier to just go with the flow of traffic.
HOWEVER, i also agree that the way in which i got my license was NOT a safe one! Same goes for car drivers, my mother was thoroughly shocked when she found out that her 15 yr old daughter is legally allowed to drive a car (where i come from you wait till 18, go through coarses both in a car park as well as in traffic plus theory, with atleast 5 lessons on the road with a qualified instructor before hand). She booked me in for on road lessons after i passed my theory and only had me driving locally for nearly a year. When i went for my bike license i was looking to get some lessons on the road, but didn't find a school that offered that, i wasn't skilled enough to do an advance coarse on the road, but i couldn't really get the skill until i put my neck on the line and go it alone on the road for a while! I was baffled by the stupidity of this system and ended up having a mate ride with me home the first day (stalled atleast 10 times and he had to direct trafic around me as i figured my way out) then got him to give me some on road lessons. He's not a teacher and we didn't have intercoms, but that was the best i could get. I do think that the NZ licensing system does need another look through.

[MSTRS:Me]

I agree with you here. Firstly, if they limited the rule of the 70k coupled with only the use of 80k road max, then indeed i would of taken the last exit onto the bridge and taken the first exit after, but the law doesn't state that so you assume you have a right to be in the 100km zone...

I say again, I think this is a bad law, but...
For the sake of contentious argument, I'm going to take a stance here.
Increasingly, nitpicky laws are being foisted on us, in an effort to address situations created by people failing to think for themselves. If you had the option of staying off 100kph zones, why didn't you? In the event that this 70kph condition stays in place, is there really any need to then add where you can't go? For many people all round the country, that would be a complete disaster. Not everyone has the option of using 50/70kph suburban arterial routes, you know.

[Mystic13]

The biggest problem with the 70k law is that most cagers don't know it and coming up behind a bike doing 75k often get quickly pissed at the idiot going slow.

Other than that I think the rule should be dropped because of the danger it poses to the rider.

If a bike rider needs to be limited to 70k then a car driver should also be restricted by the same argument. Especially since they have a cage to protect them.

Personally I give all "L" drivers and riders and very old people a bit of room.

[pzkpfw]

The biggest problem with the 70k law is that most cagers don't know it and coming up behind a bike doing 75k often get quickly pissed at the idiot going slow.

That still misses the point that the L-plate bike shouldn't be there in the first place.

The idiot, sorry, is that rider.

[FROSTY:Me]

I think there is a basic breakdown in perception of what a Learner licence is for.
I really feel this is at the very CORE of the disagreement here and elsewhere.
Those that are argueing that 70km/h is unsafe I think believe that a L licence is a licence to RIDE.
I agree 100% that if that is the intent of a L licence then 70km/h is rediculous.
However if it is as I believe it is a licence to LEARN to ride then its very cleverly phrased.
If an L plate rider is FORCED to abide 100% by the 70km/h restriction then they must restrict their rideing to places and TIMES that are safe (as safe as biking ever is) to do so.

In other words if you are on a road with cars buzzing by 30km/h faster than you-- YOU are on the wrong road.

I feel to get with the times the CURRENT restriction needs to stay with perhaps a note to the effect.

"ALL L plate riders must ride no faster than 70km/h and must do so at times and places where it is safe to do so."
OMG I HEAR YOU SCREAM we MUST ACTUALLY ACCEPT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY--NO we can't have that.

I"ll post up later why I feel we MUST get our respective heads out of OUR arses to prevent the government interfereing.

AGAIN--and Im sorry if it seems a bad comparisson WOULD YOU LET A NOVICE PILOT FLY INTO A MAJOR INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT??
I argue the answer is no. The cost of an error is just too great
So WHY IN HELL would anyone want a NOVICE rider out there on for example Aucklands busy motorways??

The OP offers a perfect example of making CHOICES based on what is CONVENIENT to her.AS a minimum she could have gone on and off the motorway where it is a 80km/h zone. ( for those of you from out of town there is a section of auckland motorway directly before and after the harbour bridge restricted to 80km/h) ie last onramp before the bridge then off at the first available offramp. She chose not to. There was also the option to go via west auckland where currently there is a section of double lane highway at 80km/h with a VERYwide sealed edge on it.
The law in this case is NOT a farce.and quite frankly isn't open to interpretation.
What is a farce is those that think that by weaving through some cones a couple of times and scratcheeing at the local testing place that they are suddenly capable of safely riding a motorcycle. Guess what -they ARE NOT.
Please don't quote the EXCEPTIONS to the rules.--Im raising five of them. My kids can all (bar perhps mr 5) ride motorcycles with a fair degree of competence. One of them has demonstrated he is capable of riding with quite good skill at up to 120km/h (on Taupo track)

Isn't it mind blowing --we have such a nanny state in so many ways yet we have such relaxed laws re bike licencing.

One final note---Do we REALLY want the microscope to be pointed over the licencing laws?
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that they are likely to get MORE not less restrictive given the statistics re accident rates and time on bike.

[FROSTY:Me]

I agree with you here. Firstly, if they limited the rule of the 70k coupled with only the use of 80k road max, then indeed i would of taken the last exit onto the bridge and taken the first exit after, but the law doesn't state that so you assume you have a right to be in the 100km zone. In my opinion, it is dangerous to be going at 70km while everyone is whisking past you, some even tooting their horns and giving you a bit of a scare, it's much easier to just go with the flow of traffic.

THERE IT IS IN PLAIN ENGLISH!!!!
wHY DID you NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS???