You're such a daredevil Mark - what a rebel.Originally Posted by MarkH
It should be a legal requirement to wear a basic level of safety gear at all times.
It should be a legal requirement to wear a basic level of gear above 50 km/h.
No laws please, but a star rating would be good so we can compare different gear easily.
Get lost. It's my choice. Keep the Government out of it.
Forum whore
You're such a daredevil Mark - what a rebel.
Whisky Tango Foxtrot?
That's so true! In fact I have already crossed the road several times today - I get a thrill out of taking risks, the nanny state be damned!
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"If the cops didn't see it, I didn't do it!"
- George Carlin (RIP)
Rider in training
The catch is, most of those other activities don't wring up a half billion dollar medical bill on the cash register at ACC.
Also their is a concept of a national risk profile. As a nation, we find it acceptable to cross the road, going skiing, fishing etc.
As a nation we don't find it acceptable to drink/drive [anymore!].
The trick is determining where the magic line of risk is that as a nation we are no longer prepared to accept.
ArseBiscuit
Check the ACC costs for bicycle accidents.....or "home handyman" type accidents.
Rider in training
http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/media...00053#P87_8049
For the period 1 July 2007 to 30 June 2008:
Cycling, number of new claims = 1064, $10m
Motorsports, number of new claims = 1260, $18m
Hardly compares to the $500 million for motorcycle accidents, does it.
Forum whore
From: http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/stati...aims/IS0800067
Add 3 zeroes to the end of the figures.
Recreation or Sporting Activity
Number of New Claims Number of Active Claims Cost of Claims ($000) 2007-07/2008-06 21,686 27,884 218,200
Walking or Running was $189,000,000
In total the non-work related, non-motor vehicle related cost of accidents and fatalities was $888,308,000 for July 2007 to June 2008.
ACC's stats are not well collated. The categories are designed to highlight certain areas and lump things like bicycles into categories that aren't explicitly related to the cost of bicycle related accidents and deaths.
ACC are fundamentally crying wolf. We're an easy target to pick on because they have specifically separated statistics about motorcycles out of the general mix to justify charging us more for the privilege of riding a motorcycle. They have a point in that it costs them nearly $500 per registered motorcycle, but remember that 18% of riders involved in accidents aren't holding the relevant Class 6 license and you have an argument that the point of sale needs to be regulated, and that woul deventually have the effect of reducing injuries and fatalities from riders buying a motorcycle they aren't legally entitled to ride - most likely, it will punish bike shops and private sellers for helping an idiot fulfill their destiny. At the moment anyone can buy any motor vehicle in NZ. You don't have to have a license to own one.
If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?
Whisky Tango Foxtrot?
Half a billion? Can you back that figure up?
From a quick google:
http://www.kiwirider.co.nz/acc/acclevy.html
"Riders dont pay the full cost of their injury care. Last year, we paid more than $62 million to care for people injured while on their motorcycles, while we collected only $12.3 million in motorcycle levies."
Of course they now collect a bit more in levies as they have put up the price. But if $62M is right then how do you get the half billion dollar medical bill you mention?
http://accforum.org/forums/index.php...&mode=threaded
"Rugby injuries are costing the country millions of dollars, but are generally less serious than they used to be.
In the past three years, the bill for injuries has been $105 million, with the increasing cost blamed on growing player numbers."
$105M over the last 3 years = $35M per year? But Rugby players aren't paying an ACC Levy on their sport. And they don't need to play rugby to get to work & back each day. Banning Rugby would save enough to pay over half the motorcycle bill!
I have now sold my car, the only motor vehicle I own has just 2 wheels and without it I can't earn any money. It uses half as much petrol as the economical car (1500cc EFI Manual) I sold 2 days ago did - therefore puts out about half the greenhouse gas emissions. Yes there is more risk to life & limb - but I save time and money on commuting around Auckland and I am prepared to take the risk.
Should the other motorists share the cost of injuries to motorcyclists? Well, since they are responsible for a significant number of injuries to motorcyclists each year then yes they should!
----------------------------------------------------
"If the cops didn't see it, I didn't do it!"
- George Carlin (RIP)
Rider in training
As James would say, statistics ...
Anyway, the current discussion paper, Safer Journeys:
http://www.transport.govt.nz/saferjo...Final_ISBN.pdf
"The total social cost of crashes involving motorcyclists in 2008 was $586.62 million."
I smell something fishy here with the words "social cost".
Whisky Tango Foxtrot?
Whoa - from the link you just posted:
"Road crash injuries
In 2007/08 ACC dealt with 14,768 claims for road crash injuries. 6,077 of those were new claims, while 8,691 were from people who were still coping with older road crash injuries. The total cost of road crash injuries for that year was $336.1 million."
If the total cost of road crash injuries is $336m and you have stated that M/cycle accidents cost $500M in medical bills then you are suggesting that the cost of car/van/truck related injuries is negative $164M?
I call BULLSHIT!
----------------------------------------------------
"If the cops didn't see it, I didn't do it!"
- George Carlin (RIP)
Rider in training
Do you think that $218 million includes off road motorcycle accidents?
parting of the sensory
"There are lies, damned lies, and the complete and utter bullshit manipulation that is statisitics".
... and that's what I think.
Or summat.
Or maybe not...
Dunno really....
Rider in training
You are right. The $500m "social cost" they quote obviously had some kind of fudge factor built into it, which doesn't stack up.
I have been mislead by the reported figure.
Forum whore
That's competitive cycling accidents relating to a sporting event, not riding your pushie to work and being muntered by a non-indicating bus type accident.
Part of presenting your case is learning to read stats and understandning that they are designed to misinform.
If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?
Whisky Tango Foxtrot?
I smell something fishy here with your claims!
The total social cost may be $586M, but that doesn't equal your claimed "half billion dollar medical bill".
Also:
Have you read the thread title? We are all discussing the ACC cost and you are dishonestly jumping into the total social cost to justify your arguments. ACC costs are not the same as social costs. Do even know what sort of factors are taken into account to work out the social costs? Hint: A fuck load more than the medical bill.
"Sport and leisure injuries
Almost 26,500 New Zealanders were injured playing sport, and 108 died as a result of their injuries in 2007/08."
That sounds like more deaths (I think) & more injuries than we have from motorcycle crashes - so it is likely to lead to a higher social cost as well. Motorcyclists pay an ACC levy on their rego & on their petrol - what are the people that play sports paying?
----------------------------------------------------
"If the cops didn't see it, I didn't do it!"
- George Carlin (RIP)
Rider in training
Yes, I did read the thread title. You might like to check who the author was.
The information I have suggest you are correct about their being more deaths from sporting accidents.
http://www.transport.govt.nz/saferjo...Final_ISBN.pdf
"In 2008, 50 motorcyclists were killed, 456 were seriously injured and a further 940 suffered minor injures. This equates to 14 percent of all road deaths and 18 percent of all serious injuries."
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