Group ride sticky

[Padmei]

I usually start off riding with a group but eventually get tired of the other riders & route & choose a different way - just to keep things interesting

[JATZ]

I usually start off riding with a group but eventually get tired of the other riders & route & choose a different way - just to keep things interesting

[Woodman]

This does pose some questions about etiquette on an adv ride that I think some noobs (and me) do wonder about.

For example :

Will you offend someone by passing them (anywhere)?
How close is too close to follow ?
Do you have to stop just cos everyone else does?

There are other things of course and i don't wanna complicate things but there are some unwritten rules out there that not everyone knows.

Your opinions.........

[bart]

Hi, my names Bart and I'm a speedaholic.

OK, I'm no angel. I get caught up in the moment, and ride like an idiot at times, but every time I ride, it's totally at my own risk.

I used to ride road bikes, and after a while, I refused to ride in groups larger than about 6. Rides like the Coast to Coast put me right off. Too many different skill levels and bike sizes, and the following distances are far too close. How there aren't more accidents amazes me.

However, with Adventure Riding, most of these problems don't exist. Riders are more spread out and generally better behaved. There are always plenty of stops to regroup, and more comraderie. I think ADV atracts a slightly more mature following also.

My only gripe is the occasional rider spending a little more time than they have to in the right hand wheel track. My biggest fear is having to scrape someone off the bullbar of some farmers 4WD.

[The Stranger:Me]

My original concern with this is the mention in the sticky of the possibility of legal liability for any bad outcome on the ride, I would suggest you read that part.
Now, it is stated that there is only a very small likely hood of a legal liability but a recent involvment with a maritime investigation has made me far more aware of how people investigating an incident / accident look at those responsible / involved. My principle concern is that having the Group ride sticky well advertised on the forum it makes it a de-facto "rules for how the rides will be organised", you can't claim you didn't know.
I want to be able to post up a date and rough route without having to spend days pissing about with crossing T's and dotting I's and worrying about the consequences of losing some noddy down a bank, a very real possibility on our rides.
I also want to be able to encourage n00bs along without having to sight there licences and check their bikes over.....

I'm just not convinced we can ignore the sticky and carry on, we may be leaving ourselves open for liability at some stage, I unfortunately don't have any suggestions of how best to address this.

except start posting under Tri-boys name

Ok, for a start, ignorance is/was not bliss. It just feels like it is all.
Ignorance is NOT an effective defence in a criminal case and would be highly unlikely to succeed in a civil case either.
Anyone game to try it with say the HSE act for example?

It was a difficult decision whether or not to raise this issue. It looks like scaremongering. That's not the intent. I really wouldn't like to hear of someone facing charges and me sitting here knowing it was a real possibility but I just shut the fuck up.
If we take the case of the woman who organised the bicycle race down Christchurch way (yes I know its not relavent to us from a legal perspective) however, it is rumoured to have cost her $150,000.00 to defend - and she lost. If you won you are likely to AT BEST get 2 thirds of your costs back - at best. How many people have that sort of money kicking around for just such an eventuality?
So I put it out there so as people may chose to make an informed decision - or not, as they see fit, not as I see fit (were I to keep it to myself).

Legal advice was that a problem could arise where for example a noob is killed and the parents of such noob decided that you (who ever you are) as an experienced rider should well have known that a given path, route, road etc was unsuitable for noobs, but you chose to lead the ride there all the same. This could well be a private manslaughter charge much as was bought by the family of the guy killed by the cop a short while ago. As I illustrate above, it need not succeed to ruin your day. But who knows how a jury would find?

I can't be arsed with an argument or a shit fight, I'm just putting it out there as it was put to me for you to decide.

For my money, I would be very sure I advertised the type of ride and the experience level of (skill) the rider it would suit.

[Laxi]

surely having these guidelines would help a legal situation, if for example you organise a ride, attach a link to thread, and post the ideal experiance level, then it puts responsibility on the induvidual to decide if it's for them or not?

[The Stranger:Me]

surely having these guidelines would help a legal situation, if for example you organise a ride, attach a link to thread, and post the ideal experiance level, then it puts responsibility on the induvidual to decide if it's for them or not?

That is the intent.
If noob chooses to turn up for a techincal/dangerous ride against the advise of the organiser (by the organiser stating it is so) you can't stop them, but it's going to make it that much harder for the blame to land on the organiser.

[The Stranger:Me]

That is the intent.

Actually, that didn't come out right, there's lots of intents.
The primary one being everyone comes home having had a great time.

[That looks like fun]

Slept intent Woke up and rode me scooter
Nordie boy you are quite right, if someone decides to pass someone they should have the skills to do it However should the person being passed also have some skills? As I have no idea of the pattern of the noodles in the other riders helmet and as some of the roads we ride are narrow and windy with short safe passing areas, can I please be allowed take some responsibility for my own safety and the enjoyment of other riders by oh... lets say I just stick to the left and button off, wave them past (safely of course) then rockin on .
Its the simple things in life I enjoy, now where did I leave that retard

[Kickaha]

If we take the case of the woman who organised the bicycle race down Christchurch way (yes I know its not relavent to us from a legal perspective) however, it is rumoured to have cost her $150,000.00 to defend - and she lost.

That was later overturned - she won (still cost her though)

[Crisis management]

For my money, I would be very sure I advertised the type of ride and the experience level of (skill) the rider it would suit.

Ok, I thought this would be the outcome, I appreciate the intent of the sticky and hopefully it will prove to be a useful means of clarifying the experience level required for a ride.

For our rides how are we going to measure the level of riding ability required?
Public roads: Slow, Medium or Anthrax?
Private property / tracks: Bike size and easy, medium or where's the helicopter?

Is this information going to be enough?

All the upcoming rides, I assume you organising individuals have a plan for this?

[NordieBoy]

Easy, medium, EPIRB?

GS, KLR, DR, XR, KTM?

E-08, TKC80, D606, K760?

[BiK3RChiK]

That was later overturned - she won (still cost her though)

You can bet it cost her more than money too I can surmise that none of us would want to be put in this position, hence, I can see the reason for the sticky. I also see Crisis Managements point of it putting him off organising group rides.......

[The Stranger:Me]

You can bet it cost her more than money too I can surmise that none of us would want to be put in this position, hence, I can see the reason for the sticky. I also see Crisis Managements point of it putting him off organising group rides.......

Shit yeah, I bet the stress robbed her of many good years of her life. But again I would stress the case isn't really relavent to us from a legal perspective.
As to being put off organising rides.
Well, reality is almost ANYTHING you do in life, done without due care can land you in the shit, but usually doesn't right.
So, nothing has really changed there and the suggestions put forward are in general only common sense and mostly aimed at letting people know what to expect. Only a very little extra work is involved to implement them and most of that is done before the ride starts.
So not that I have organised many group rides, but it sure as hell wouldn't put me off.

[Waihou Thumper]

The Tramping club that organises the weekend tramp? Or the little old ladies out my way that walk the bush walks every Tuesday or Wednesday...
Where does the fun stop being fun and all we are thinking about is the consequences all the time. It does sort of burst the bubble of the urge, the looking forward to the ride, walk, event etc.
If we have more than two riders, then does the onus rest on the poor guy at the front that is leading? Or as a whole we all take responsibilities for route, petrol stops and wee wee stops..?
I agree with some of the posts, as a whole the ADV group is more mature, a little closer in knowing one another and we do take care of one another out there, from falls, running out of gas and helping to brush off the dust from my arse and even straightening my indicators and duct taping it all together to get me home safely!

I rode on an organised poker run a few years ago, there wasn't any planned route, certainly nobody would have noticed me or anyone gone from the road.....ie fallen off or similar. I wouldn't ride in one of those again if you paid me, however ADV rides and the ones we all enjoy on here, I will keep coming back and back, we are all a great bunch on the whole and if the PC world starts closing in on this small and limited amount of fun we can still have then it would be sad....
I would rather sell the KTM and get a KLR......

Well, you cannot be srious all the time with these posts, there has to be a little dig somewhere right?

Keep it all coming, it is stirring the pot a little and I do think there are a lot of thoughts out there that are constructive and well put. Please don't stop organising fun rides, great tours and social get togethers...
We aren't really organised, we just happen to bew travelling the same routes most of the time anyway.....NZ is a small country afterall, there aren't enough roads to 'NOT' meet a biker or follow thirty others through the back of Waikaremoana all going the same way..