Group ride sticky

[That looks like fun]

A discussion on rider ettiquitte (shit thats a big word, hope I spelled it right)
might have been useful. Amusing yes, useful maybe
All this debate about legal mumbo jumbo (strangley enough inserted mainly by road riders) is just wasted web space.
I am going for a ride and no your not invited
(unless ya wanna come ok )

[Oscar]

A discussion on rider ettiquitte (shit thats a big word, hope I spelled it right)
might have been useful. Amusing yes, useful maybe
All this debate about legal mumbo jumbo (strangley enough inserted mainly by road riders) is just wasted web space.
I am going for a ride and no your not invited
(unless ya wanna come ok )

Who you calling a road rider...?

More to the point, do you know anyone that wants a GS1100 like yours? I have one cluttering up the place...

[Woodman]

Calling the fun police.........

Exactly........ Move on please nothing interesting to see here.

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

Ok guys here goes....

The guide is meant to be...............A GUIDE

Its come about because there have been occasions when on 'organised' rides there have been varying degrees of mishaps the more serious of which has resulted in the death of one of the participants.

Organised; this means a ride that has been 'advertised' on KB by an individual keen to have some company on a ride out.

When you 'advertise' a ride using this kind of forum, like it or not there is a perceived responsibility being taken.

'The Guide' is there (should someone choose to use it) to aid this individual to cover as many bases as possible re suitability, complexity, expected behaviours etc in the initial post advertising the ride and on the day. It’s true, should the worst happen and provided the guidelines have been seen to have been followed the 'organiser' will be in a better position to state he/she did all they could to be responsible if ‘someone attempts to hold them accountable.

This thread started in the ADV/Duel section but to be honest is really aimed at the road riding section of our community.

The simple aim of this initiative is to make riding in a group safer based on the experience of many well seasoned and the feedback of new to biking individuals.

KG

[xgnr]

Have you read the Group Ride Guide?

Yep started it, spotted the assertion that staggered riding is not appropriate or words to that effect?

Better tell that to most MC Clubs... they obviously got it wrong

[Padmei]

I for one am glad of all the issues brough up on this thread. I was president of the local triathlon & multisport club for a few years & race directed & organised many races.
To be honest the Traffic management plans scared the crap out of me any time I had to put my name on the bottom line. We were all aware disclaimers meant nothing if neglect could proved - imagine trying to eliminate or reduce risks in a multisport race on busy roads, rivers, off road tracks etc.

In one race (organised by someone else) a girl ran into the front of a ute full speed mountainbiking in the forest cos she expected the road to be closed. She received major injuries. She, her partner & her parents understood the risks & were cool about it. Her auntie however wanted the organiser's blood. The police were brought in however nothing luckily ever eventuated. Whilst the was no case brought up it was a very stressful time for the organiser.

As a relative newcomer to adv riding I often wondered what would happen if something bad happened during an organised ride. By organised I would take that to be a ride with a set route, rider briefing, participation requirements ie. have to stop at a place to check in etc & not a bunch of guys heading out on a Sunday cruise up to the lake... I see no difference in the former from competing in a club race or event.

[The Stranger:Me]

Yep started it, spotted the assertion that staggered riding is not appropriate or words to that effect?

Better tell that to most MC Clubs... they obviously got it wrong

Yep, the explanation looks like a definite assertion against to me. No way does that look balanced or present both sides of what was a contentious issue.
The correct approach would have been xgnr says staggered formation is good so we all do it right!

There is much debate on the merits of staggered formation riding and it appears divisions run deep on this one. Below are the pros and cons. If the organiser doesn't advise in their pre-ride brief you decide what you are comfortable with.

Pros
The ride presents a greater frontal area which may help reduce the "I didn't see you factor" from other motorists.
It allows additional braking distance. You should be maintaining safe following distances at all times regardless of whether the bike in front is offset or not.
It may allow riders a better view of the road ahead as view is not obstructed by a bike in front.
Cons
It contradicts the cardinal rule of group riding - ride your own ride. You are riding where someone else dictates.
Some bikes will be forced to use the left wheel track which reduces visibility and vision and puts them in line for more tar bleed and pot holes.
Many will hold stagger for entry to bends which means they start their corner from a sub-optimal road position.
It creates a false sense of safety and people often tend to close the gap as a result, thus creating a safety issue.

[warewolf]

Yep started it, spotted the assertion that staggered riding is not appropriate or words to that effect?

Better tell that to most MC Clubs... they obviously got it wrong

Yes, they did... don't get me started.

Staggered formation has been known to be wrong since about the late eighties. Even the ACC 'group riding' DVD released a couple of years ago erroneously recommends it, and their motion picture footage of said act blatantly demonstrates one of the prime reasons it is wrong. Du-uh!

Prime reason it is wrong: if the bikes are closer than recommended for single-file riding by using the (non-existent) buffer space beside the rider ahead (using less real estate is a common justification for staggered formation), then when setting up for a corner where you are ideally only on the outside line, the bikes end up with insufficient buffer as the bikes on the inside of the corner move to the outside. There is no point being 'staggered' but at single-file spacing... achieves nought but puts lefties too close to the shoulder for normal riding, and righties too close to oncoming traffic. The single file should balance these and other competing concerns, and usually there is only one optimal position - staggered implies there are two.