A LEttrr to KB

[sAsLEX]

is it "Reckless Driving" or "Reckless Driving causing Death"?

what about "man slaughter"?

why not murder, if i pulled the trigger of a gun while pointing it at a crowd this is what i would be done for is it not??

running a red light is the same as pulling a trigger, making an active decision to disobey a safety device resulting in someones death, and this should not be swept under the carpet like this over and over again.

Or did she not "understand" red lights!?

[sAsLEX]

yea how can anyone mistake the letter for anything you wrote anyway? The letter made sense.


Sorry to hear about this one, May be time for some lynch mob justice, biker style. I got a rope we can use now me need a bike with high torque to tie it to...

have a look herehttp://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...58&postcount=1 , was fine in the beginning then the KB virus took over!!!!

oh and the first pic

[madboy]

I disagree with murder, on the basis that it was not a deliberate decision to take someones life.

I do, however, feel that manslaughter would be appropriate on the basis that it was a deliberate decision to commit the offence (running the red) which inadvertantly resulted in death. In the eyes of the law my understanding is that there has to be intent established before murder can be proven. And since the intent was to be a dumb f*** and run the red, then the death was accidental. Bit like a pub fight, you take a swing to knock someone flat cos they pinched your g/fs butt, get the angle slightly wrong and stick their nose into their brain and kill them. Deliberate punch, accidental death.

Look - I agree with everyone here, the stupid stupid stupid woman needs something more than reckless driving. But in the eyes of the law, murder is not a fair call, manslaughter should be a dead cert.

[sAsLEX]

Ahh true Madboy.


Now what would happen if it was a 16-25 year old male in a "boy Racer" car that did it?? I am sure he wouldn't even see the book flying at him! Nor would they take into account his innexperience, that would just help their case

[scumdog]

I guess it's not serious because she wasn't speeding.

You're all heart and sensitivity Lou.......

[Zapf]

any idea if we are allowed to hold up banners in the court room? or just outside the court room?

I really HATE red light runners... specially ones that still go thru 2 seconds after it turns red

[Mr Skid]

any idea if we are allowed to hold up banners in the court room? or just outside the court room?

I really HATE red light runners... specially ones that still go thru 2 seconds after it turns red

I'd expect you'd be removed from the court room quite quickly.
Judges tend to like to keep a tight rein on matters in their court rooms.

I can't see anything precluding an intimidating presence inside or outside the court room, but I'd be inclined to think about the impact on the victim's family first.

If you gained the permission of the family, and got people organised, you could probably have a decent presence outside the courtroom, which combined with a press release could highlight the issue in the news media.

Althernatively, you could contact the Herald, and see if they'd accept an opinion piece from you discussing this case and issues surrounding it i.e. driver licencing + training / immigration issues (if that's a factor in this instance) / motorcycle awareness or similar.

I see ACC are running the 'look out for motorbikes' campaign again. They might be keen to help you with information etc if they think it'll tie in with their campaign.

[ktulu]

DON"T EVEN FUCKEN START ME ON OUR ABSOLUTELY RUBBISH "" PUNISHMENTS "" WE GIVE PEOPLE

[jazbug5]

I'd expect you'd be removed from the court room quite quickly.
Judges tend to like to keep a tight rein on matters in their court rooms.

I can't see anything precluding an intimidating presence inside or outside the court room, but I'd be inclined to think about the impact on the victim's family first.

If you gained the permission of the family, and got people organised, you could probably have a decent presence outside the courtroom, which combined with a press release could highlight the issue in the news media.

Althernatively, you could contact the Herald, and see if they'd accept an opinion piece from you discussing this case and issues surrounding it i.e. driver licencing + training / immigration issues (if that's a factor in this instance) / motorcycle awareness or similar.

I see ACC are running the 'look out for motorbikes' campaign again. They might be keen to help you with information etc if they think it'll tie in with their campaign.

Papparazzi, you make a lot of sense. I read this and felt more furious with each additional detail- I mean- she RAN OVER HIS HEAD AFTER HE"D COME OFF HIS BIKE!!!
However, trying to appeal to the judge by creating a fuss in his courtroom is hardly going to work. Is there any point collating this and other instances of idiotic lawmaking and then starting up some sort of petition? Do Ulysses already have something on the go? Is there a way of getting something really well organised on the go- nationally?
This is absolutely revolting. So we should be revolting, too....

[Indiana_Jones]

F*cking hell our PC correct world makes my blood boil, We need more Tori's

-Indy

[James Deuce]

- I mean- she RAN OVER HIS HEAD AFTER HE"D COME OFF HIS BIKE!!!

Happened to me. Broke my neck and back in 4 places. Dude got disqualified for a month and fined $600. At the end of the day, you are better off putting it behind you and moving on. Punishing the perpetrator accomplishes a big fat zero in terms of the grieving process. The family and friends need to come to terms with their loss, but revenge is utterly hollow. There are better things in life that wallowing in negative feelings and attitudes.

[Waylander]

Just wanted to say, nice avatar there Jim2. Like Godsmack do ya? and clever to put the yammy forks in the middle.


Anyway like I said before I got the rope if someone wants to offer up their bike for a biker style lynchin... Oh and without punishing those that do this kind of crap people don't think of what would happen to them if they decide to run a red light. Make an example of them so others learn.

[James Deuce]

Just wanted to say, nice avatar there Jim2. Like Godsmack do ya? and clever to put the yammy forks in the middle.


Anyway like I said before I got the rope if someone wants to offer up their bike for a biker style lynchin... Oh and without punishing those that do this kind of crap people don't think of what would happen to them if they decide to run a red light. Make an example of them so others learn.

(Thanks )

I know what you are saying, but the cornerstone of modern civilisation is the judicial system, no matter how screwed up. Without it we are just beer swilling savages. The Judicial system dishes out punishment to fit a crime against the values of a society, not the victim. If we stop regarding motor vehicle incidents as accidents, we would go a long way toward providing motivation to behave better on the road, as the punishments would be more in line with the result of an "accident".

However, the "victim" and their family have to continue to live, to move on, and learn to live without their lost family member. That should be their primary focus, not organising or supporting a lynch mob.

In this particular case the chap killed was a very bright individual, and even though we'll never know I think NZ missed out when this guy died. But, and this is a big but, and may appear cruel, the accident report mentions that he was travelling in excess of 60km/hr in a 50km/hr zone. The Police themselves have said that they don't believe that the excessive speed contributed to the accident. "Could have beens" are a bit pointless, but if he hadn't have been speeding he wouldn't have been at a point in time and space to be struck by an incompetent, poorly trained, and inexperienced driver.

[Waylander]

(Thanks )

I know what you are saying, but the cornerstone of modern civilisation is the judicial system, no matter how screwed up. Without it we are just beer swilling savages. The Judicial system dishes out punishment to fit a crime against the values of a society, not the victim. If we stop regarding motor vehicle incidents as accidents, we would go a long way toward providing motivation to behave better on the road, as the punishments would be more in line with the result of an "accident".

However, the "victim" and their family have to continue to live, to move on, and learn to live without their lost family member. That should be their primary focus, not organising or supporting a lynch mob.

In this particular case the chap killed was a very bright individual, and even though we'll never know I think NZ missed out when this guy died. But, and this is a big but, and may appear cruel, the accident report mentions that he was travelling in excess of 60km/hr in a 50km/hr zone. The Police themselves have said that they don't believe that the excessive speed contributed to the accident. "Could have beens" are a bit pointless, but if he hadn't have been speeding he wouldn't have been at a point in time and space to be struck by an incompetent, poorly trained, and inexperienced driver.

Was mostley joking about the lynch mob thing mate, Texan remember? Still use that form of justice in some parts. I'm not one to say death for death but I think a more sever punishment for those that break a law. Like you said punisment according to the result rather than the law broken would be much better.

[Ixion]

(Thanks )

.. to be struck by an incompetent, poorly trained, and inexperienced driver.

With all respect this seems to me to be more than just "incompetent, poorly trained, and inexperienced ".

We've all been those things at some stage.

But in this case the driver

(a) Ran through a red light. Deliberately. I do not believe that you could get a restricted license without knowing that red means stop. So that bit wasn't just incompetent, poorly trained, and inexperienced . It was wilful negligence.

(b) She hit the car in front and that in turn hit the motorcyclist. She then continued driving (after hitting the Falcon) and ran over the motorcyclist. What sort of a person has a major impact with another vehicle and DOESN"T STOP ? So that wasn't just incompetent, poorly trained, and inexperienced . That was gross disdain for any injury she might have done.

I'd want at least manslaughter if it were me.

Saying it's just because of "incompetent, poorly trained, and inexperienced " is a cop-out.

She was wilfully negligent, and is also apparently completely remorseless.

Even someone who has never driven a vehicle in their life knows stop on red, and would stop after hitting someone .

If it were me, yes, I'd hang her. Society doesn't need people like that. And , yep, I'd pull the lever.