A LEttrr to KB

[Kwaka-Kid]

Sorry to hear about this wari

what about like when she pops outta court someone runs up and slugs her the quick 1-2 ? no?..

[Waylander]

Sorry to hear about this wari

what about like when she pops outta court someone runs up and slugs her the quick 1-2 ? no?..

I'll do it.

Anyway what's this about judges being able to make up laws on the spot? I hope there is somewhere where they have to justify this new law else people who go to court could be fined and such just becouse the judge thinks the person is an idiot.

[Ixion]

If it is so clearly manslaughter then why do we have offences like dangerous driving, careless driving and reckless driving causing death or injury?

Wouldn't care to say this one was clearly manslaughter. Just that is what I'd have gone for . Bearing in mind again, that we have only one side of the picture. The prosecution obviously don't think it's clearly manslaughter.

The offences you specify are a gradual continuum, with (obviously) manslaughter at the far end. So anyone who is careless, or worse reckless and someone dies as a result could face those charges. Careless might be a momentary lapse of attention, which happened to occur at the wrong time and place. Reckless might be an initial "who cares" followed by behaviour that indicates a "oh hell what have I done" and sensible behaviour .

What I'm wrestling with in this case is (1) it appears that the red light running was very deliberate, not just a "I thought I'd get through on the amber" . And (2) the fact that she had to pass the car in front, which actually knocked him off (but presumably didn't kill him) and then run over him. If she had stopped after hitting the Falcon he would (presumably) have lived. (Disclaimer again, that all this is based on one view point only. Hearing her story might alter things. But the one view point is the only one we have here).

"Just" (just deliberately in quotes to mark it as ironical) running a light late and hitting and killing a biker , ok maybe reckless driving or careless driving. (Not sure where dangerous fits in, think maybe there has to be speed or something for that. This is more reckless/careless). Driving over him, after a non-culpable smash, maybe careless. eg , perhaps, if it had been the Falcon driver that ran over him.

But this seems more than that, more wilful, more negligent. And take the two of them together, and the sum is more than the parts. She wasn't just reckless in going through the red light. She wasn't just careless in running overhim. She compounded one with the other.

[Jeremy]

I'll do it.

Anyway what's this about judges being able to make up laws on the spot? I hope there is somewhere where they have to justify this new law else people who go to court could be fined and such just becouse the judge thinks the person is an idiot.

A judge in a higher court can overturn the law.

EDIT: Went to LTSA website, they say:

Failing to stop after an accident where a person is injured or killed: Imprisonment for up to 5 years, or a fine not exceeding $20,000, or both, and disqualification for at least 1 year

Reckless or dangerous driving causing injury to or the death of another person: Imprisonment for up to 5 years, or a fine not exceeding $20,000, or both, and disqualification for at least 1 year

So that's up to 10 years with up to a 20,000 fine. And a minimum of 2 years disqualification.

[spudchucka]

Have a read of young Oliver's story and see what the likely differences are between his case and the case at hand.

http://www.justice.govt.nz/education...fullstory.html

[Waylander]

A judge in a higher court can overturn the law.

But who controls that one?

[spudchucka]

A judge in a higher court can overturn the law.

A judge of a higher court can overturn a decision of a lower court. No court can re-write the law, only parliament can do that.

[Krusti]

The thing is that the Police in laying the charge of Reckless driving are saying that the person was fully aware of what they were doing.

I am amazed that it would be only Reckless not Reckless causing death.

Reckless driving charge is used when the person knows what they are doing and continue regardless. Not having read the file I can not say what the charge should be but if in fact she knew what she was doing then a charge which carries a more severe minimum sentence would be appropriate.

Maximum penalties mean diddly squat......minimum penalties are what matters!

[Jeremy]

Have a read of young Oliver's story and see what the likely differences are between his case and the case at hand.

http://www.justice.govt.nz/education...fullstory.html

Hmm noticed something a little odd on: http://www.justice.govt.nz/education...ullstory2.html

How come they didn't take away Oliver's keys to the car? If he isn't caught breaching bail in his car, how come the person who gave him keys allowing him to breach bail isn't charged? And if no-one gave him the keys how come he's not charged with theft?

[spudchucka]

Wouldn't care to say this one was clearly manslaughter. Just that is what I'd have gone for .

I understand that, what I'm asking is whether it could actually be succesfully prosecuted. I'd like the people that slagged off the police at the start of the thread to give some thought to what they were actually saying.

Hearing her story might alter things. But the one view point is the only one we have here).

Good thing no one is actually on trial here then, aye!

[Krusti]

Apart from all the discussions re penalties etc...this is a very disturbing crash and I feel for the families involved. Life really sux sometimes and I can not imagine how the family of this poor guy are feeling.

All I can say is I feel for them, poor buggers.

[Gen]

NZ is notorious for fucking over victims and rewarding the perpetrator.
Interesting how, 100-200 years and more ago, you got your hands chopped off for stealing a loaf of bread.

These days you get free bed and board in prison for a crime
.And a playstation and early parole if you're a 'model inmate'.Then you go out and murder, rape, speed again.

And the cycle continues.
It's fucking pathetic, and I bloody hope the law system does not reflect the majority of people's views on crime.

[spudchucka]

And if no-one gave him the keys how come he's not charged with theft?

A victim still has to make a complaint of unlawful taking before he could be charged with that offence. I guess he was driving his mum or dad's car and they didn't want to make a complaint.

[spudchucka]

I am amazed that it would be only Reckless not Reckless causing death.

I'd like to see that confirmed. I'd be surprised if it isn't reckless causing death.

[Zapf]

hearing ya there mate.
fucken asians
i shouldn't say that probably, thers plenty of good ones.
and a few are my personal friends and they see where we coming from.
but thats the first thing that comes to mind .
they can do whatever they want and get a slap on the wrist and pay some money.
most of their driving is shithouse.
thats arrogance saying " im not responsible"
we should shoot the bitch then say it wasn't us your honour the gun was the one that got her i just pulled the trigger.

careful.... and thankyou call me a banana