How about we take a deep breath...

[White trash]

I'm still looking for cogent arguments about why we shouldn't have to pay what ACC claim we cost .

Protests work a lot better if we can offer some valid reasons why the increases are unfair or unjustified.

Not seen any so far.

Just started a thread asking the exact same question. Some good arguments coming forward but a bit more "rugby/soccer/netball cost more than us"

[Ixion]

Ok. I got one .

According to ACC :

In 2008/09 ACC paid more than $62 million for motorcycle riders but collected only $12.3 million in levies from them.

But, according to

there were 96952 motorcycles REGISTERED in 2008 , excluding those on exemption. According to my calculator , an annual ACC levy of $204 times 96952 = $19.8 million.

So, just how believeable are those figures.

The costs look overstated. The income certainly looks understated.

[Mom]

I'm guessing that the motorcycle trade will not be happy about this. Could put some of them out of business, more or less overnight.

So, maybe we can work with them.

This came up at a shop I was in today, job losses were talked about.

[Ixion]

Does anyone have names . I'm guessing Finn will probably have some on Wednesday.

Surely the trade will be looking at some sort of concerted action.

[Winston001]

An effective protest will need to be logical and ongoing. A gathering at Parliament looks exciting on TV but if there is no followup then the effect is lost.

[monkeymcbean]

Just started a thread asking the exact same question. Some good arguments coming forward but a bit more "rugby/soccer/netball cost more than us"

Ski industry must be a high cost to ACC as well!

[blackstars_10]

It quite an interesting issue really. It is important to present a good image of bikers to the public for success but... it seems that all the most famous/sucessfull protests consisted of a mass movement of people committing illegal actions-or actions considered unlawful to the regime in power at the time. Another key trend is that in the immediate time preceding these actions, they had to reap the consequences of their actions.

So hypothetically speaking, if all (read a large majority of) bikers took off their plates and rode in protest, in the short term they would have to pay the fines but..perhaps in hindsight, it would be an very effective measure. It is all about how the action is perceived and what changes these actions make.

Protest always loses its romantic appeal when a sacrifice is require, and a sacrifice is always required for a succesful protest

[oldrider]

.......and relax just for the moment.

All this talk of splinter protest action is likely to work against us.

Up till now I have not been a strong supporter of BRONZ, but I believe that this is the time for them to take firm hold of any protest organisation.

I also believe that they are probably the only group within NZ who have the potential to do the job justice.

Probably your most inspiring post on KB Katman! Couldn't agree more!

The Union adage: "United we stand, divided we fall" springs to mind in order to repel this attack on our very existence!

[xgnr]

Did I miss something but havnt our rego's only just been increased?

[Hitcher]

Turning back the tide on this one will take sophistication and cunning. It's not just Wellington-based policy analysts who will require convincing (indeed they are already a lost cause). It's the hearts and minds of the general public of New Zealand who will need to be won over by the reasonableness of the motorcyclists' cause.

Well constructed argument and slick PR is needed, not a bunch of rowdy oiks on bikes riding round in large groups intimidating little old ladies in in Honda Jazzs and scaring babies in strollers.

If the motorcycle levy isn't to increase, motorcyclists will need to be offering an alternative to fill the funding gap at ACC.

Politicians have a problem: ACC costs a lot to run and they have to find ways of funding it. They're not going to dismantle or privatise ACC. That is a given. They will be reluctant to further increase the excise component of the levy derived from pump sales of motor spirits because that is inflationary. In the current economic climate where people's wage packets aren't increasing, they will be very reluctant to increase the wages and salaries levy.

So what's a creative solution that ticks all the right political boxes but doesn't see motorcyclists forced off the roads? Protest rides? I think not.

[MadDuck]

not a bunch of rowdy oiks on bikes riding round in large groups intimidating little old ladies in in Honda Jazzs and scaring babies in strollers.

But what fun it would be.

[grusomhat]

People will tire of posting in that other thread and then someone a bit more organised will go ahead. People just need to understandably vent their frustrations and anger which can be seen by the 15 pages or so. It is a real mess in there though, but fortunately there are some good ideas. As I said though, once people have vented they can then go back through and pullout anything useful.

[Pussy]

Turning back the tide on this one will take sophistication and cunning. It's not just Wellington-based policy analysts who will require convincing (indeed they are already a lost cause). It's the hearts and minds of the general public of New Zealand who will need to be won over by the reasonableness of the motorcyclists' cause.

Well constructed argument and slick PR is needed, not a bunch of rowdy oiks on bikes riding round in large groups intimidating little old ladies in in Honda Jazzs and scaring babies in strollers.

If the motorcycle levy isn't to increase, motorcyclists will need to be offering an alternative to fill the funding gap at ACC.

Politicians have a problem: ACC costs a lot to run and they have to find ways of funding it. They're not going to dismantle or privatise ACC. That is a given. They will be reluctant to further increase the excise component of the levy derived from pump sales of motor spirits because that is inflationary. In the current economic climate where people's wage packets aren't increasing, they will be very reluctant to increase the wages and salaries levy.

So what's a creative solution that ticks all the right political boxes but doesn't see motorcyclists forced off the roads? Protest rides? I think not.

Right on the money there, Brett.
As I mentioned... perception is everything.
And we could ALL do ourselves a favour by embracing a bit more personal responsibility. Some of the "skills" I have seen displayed on public roads are not doing us any favours

[Paul in NZ]

Maybe a part of this is coming up with an alternative plan that...

a. Acknowledges and addresses the growing accident cost
b. Provides a means for responsible riders to escape excessive taxation (encouraging good habits)
c. Address the imbalance by increase the take and reduce the cost.

I do wonder how recreational skiers totally fund their costs, rugby players etc

I could accept a higher fee but I cannot accept that as an owner of 3 clasic bikes that are really only used on high days and holidays I should pay 3 lots when I'm the only rider in the house...

[Genestho]

Turning back the tide on this one will take sophistication and cunning. It's not just Wellington-based policy analysts who will require convincing (indeed they are already a lost cause). It's the hearts and minds of the general public of New Zealand who will need to be won over by the reasonableness of the motorcyclists' cause.

Well constructed argument and slick PR is needed, not a bunch of rowdy oiks on bikes riding round in large groups intimidating little old ladies in in Honda Jazzs and scaring babies in strollers.

If the motorcycle levy isn't to increase, motorcyclists will need to be offering an alternative to fill the funding gap at ACC.

Politicians have a problem: ACC costs a lot to run and they have to find ways of funding it. They're not going to dismantle or privatise ACC. That is a given. They will be reluctant to further increase the excise component of the levy derived from pump sales of motor spirits because that is inflationary. In the current economic climate where people's wage packets aren't increasing, they will be very reluctant to increase the wages and salaries levy.

So what's a creative solution that ticks all the right political boxes but doesn't see motorcyclists forced off the roads? Protest rides? I think not.

Totally Hitcher
It's all looking a bit hysterical, people need to chill out. Be logical.
Take a breath. I don't think a protest works well, although you can sell it to media as an awareness ride, remove the words protest, for a start. I got some other ideas too...but I can't make it to the meeting.
Ixion is asking for a logical argument. Stop reading and watching media, and read the proposals provided for a start.