How about we take a deep breath...

[Genestho]

I agree.

That's why this whole process needs to be addressed and undertaken with intelligence, logic and maturity. Foaming at the mouth will achieve nothing.

Absolutely. You can't argue with logic. Particularly if you have facts.
A mob of Motorcyclists protesting without plates giving the finger will achieve zero. And no long term gain.
It only fuels public perception.

I believe you can change things, if this is a co-ordinated effort - with all parties in the right way, emails to MP's and media from the public as is being done.
Submissions (remember in your own words) if you're up for it.
BRONZ, MNZ, Clubs, Bike Dealerships and Motorcycling public CAN change this. (Apparently Federated Famers are peeved too!)
You need to look like a bunch of good law abiding clever bastards - utilising information wisely - with alot of support.

[DidJit]

You need to look like a bunch of good law abiding clever bastards - utilising information wisely - with alot of support.

Hear hear.

[The Stranger:Me]

And this is why I believe that one of the first steps should be that BRONZ request full disclosure of motorcycle related accidents be made available for independent study.

We need to be sure on our facts and figures - because you can rest assured that we will be bombarded with their facts and figures.

We will need to be able to answer (if 50% of motorcycle accidents do not even involve another vehicle) - why are so many motorcyclists seemingly falling off of their own accord?

It is imperative that we recognise our own faults because ACC will take great pleasure in pointing them out to us.

This information has been requested in the past. They are NOT forthcoming. It could be requested under the official information act but indicative costs were around 10k.

[Katman]

This information has been requested in the past. They are NOT forthcoming. It could be requested under the official information act but indicative costs were around 10k.

Looks like we'd better work on recruiting 500 more BRONZ members.

[PuppetMaster]

I agree.
A few bikes here and there won't have an impact.
Hundreds of bikes in each city or town at the same time on the same day will get some media attention. It needs to be a National Bronz event.
A form letter that all bikers need just put their name to and a massive mail protest to the minister will also get some attention.
What then?

Basically you will be ignored and whatever changes/charges etc the Govt wanted to implement will go ahead. a bit like the recent referendum.

Im afraid the normal apathetic postering, quiet protests and some hand written letters are not going to change jack. We either get hard or we lose.

[Genestho]

Er no - poor comparison, the recent referendum was never going to change anything.
It was poorly worded, and stuffed from the start.
The cost of that could've gone to starship hospital where abused dying children spend their last hours.

And I know for a fact if you do things the right way, persist, you can get stuff done.

[Horse]

As someone pointed out in another thread, it's only $2/day for the proposed ACC - cheaper'n other countries' compulsory insurance, and much less than I currently pay for medical insurance, yet with much better coverage.

If I play rugby[1], but don't ride a motorbike, it's $2/day less than that. for the same great coverage....

[1] Replace "rugby" with cycling/horse riding/netball/walking for the same effect.

[cs363]

Looks like we'd better work on recruiting 500 more BRONZ members.

I've added five today including myself....

[Katman]

Membership form filled out and just waiting for Her-with-the-Chequebook.

[GOONR]

What I really don't like is the way that this is being portrayed in the media. Everywhere that I look it is saying.... "In 2008/09 ACC paid more than $62 million for accidents caused by motorcycles. It collected $12.3m in levies from motorcyclists in the same period."

I bet accident's "caused" by motorcycles is no where near that amount but this is what Jo Public is seeing / reading.

Anyone know how I can join BRONZ without a cheque book, can I pay via the internet? I can't check at the moment, BRONZ www is blocked from work

[cs363]

What I really don't like is the way that this is being portrayed in the media. Everywhere that I look it is saying.... "In 2008/09 ACC paid more than $62 million for accidents caused by motorcycles. It collected $12.3m in levies from motorcyclists in the same period."

I bet accident's "caused" by motorcycles is no where near that amount but this is what Jo Public is seeing / reading.

Anyone know how I can join BRONZ without a cheque book, can I pay via the internet? I can't check at the moment, BRONZ www is blocked from work

Here's a membership form, you can pay via bill payment with internet banking.

[The Stranger:Me]

I agree soooo much it hurts!

You'll get used to it - everyone else has.

[MyGSXF:Me]

I find this price hike appalling!!

Its been very poorly thought out & by the sounds is trying to be 'hurried through' voting, so that they won't actually have to come up with any REAL cold hard facts of what is really going on!

It is the ambulance waiting at the bottom of the cliff.. but the fence at the top of the cliff.. is no where in sight...

IMHO.. The G'vmnt needs to look at bringing in compulsive rider training! Having been a helper at several BHS tests.. it is bloody scary in the least, to see what the level of skill that some people have (or rather.. don't have!!) .. actually is! but hey, if they pass the test criteria.. that's it.. they get a certificate!

The licensing process needs to be stepped up, & definitely the level of skill needs to be stepped up! People should have to do some rider training & learn the proper techniques for braking/emergency braking.. slow speed control.. 'conscious' counter-steering.. proper road riding lines.. cornering etc.. BEFORE they are given a licence & let loose on the road!

Having been a part of regular rider training courses for the past 4 years (as a participant AND a helper).. I believe that all riders should have to do a compulsory say, 5 yearly refresher course. And especially people who have had a gap away from riding (been doing that family scene) etc & get back on bikes 25 years later! As reported, the highest bracket is middle aged men returning to riding, that are having a lot of the crashes! I've heard it & seen it so many times now!! Many of them have very poor skills.. & are blissfully unaware of that fact :slap:

I think there should be incentives for riders to get reduced fees. as an example.. produce an 'advanced rider training course certificate' every 5 years & get cheaper rego.. or something to that effect.

I reckon that car drivers who are found to be 'in the wrong' should be the ones penalized with extra rego fees.

All the off road/quad/farm bike crashes need to be dealt with separately from road bike statistics & costs.. As do scooters! It's disgraceful that they only need a car licence to ride one & they aren't even required to have a WOF.. ffs!!! but they are classed under motorcycle accidents in the stats!

I am also aware that there are a number of f@#&wits on bikes out there too.. that give the rest of us a bad name! again maybe rider training could sort them out.. ie: no certificate produced = not eligible to get a reg! get caught.. lose the bike for 6 months!

My thoughts anyway....

[PrincessBandit]

I've added five today including myself....

Membership form filled out and just waiting for Her-with-the-Chequebook.

I just paid for our family via fast cheque interbeb wanking ooops, i mean interweb banking.

Taking the forms along to the meeting next wed night.

[rogson]

Come on guys. This no time bitch and moan about old grievances. Despite what we may think about various motorcyclist organisations, we're all in this together.

We need to find creative solutions that stand a good chance of being favorably considered by our elected leaders. I don't care who it is who comes up with the good ideas, I just want to hear good ideas.

Given our limited numbers/minority status we aren't going to get anywhere complaining that motorcyclists are being treated unfairly. We need to make/promote proposals that will make the system fair.

How about this, a two tier ACC levy: A basic levy to cover emergency/medical expenses and a second tier to cover income and life style support expenses. The first tier would be compulsory but the second tier would be optional. This approach could/should apply to all of (non-work related?) ACC.

I don't have the statistics but I imagine a big portion (the majority?) of ACC costs goes to income/life style support while the injured party is recuperating off-work or is supported indefinitely becauise he/she can't go back to work. Make the indivdual make this choice before he/she undertakes the "risky activity".