ACC campaign, are we barking up the wrong tree?

[The Stranger:Me]

So what do we do?

Change the attitude of the politicians.
Young guys and chicks love bikes.
Get their kids involved in riding and see their attitudes change quick smart.

[howdamnhard]

So what do we do? One option would be to make insurance compulsary, then charge the acc levie on your insurance based on your previous history.

Agreed , that would be a more fair system.

[howdamnhard]

I must say, always the cool head there Jimmy. You should be in politics.

I'll try.
For a start we are the only group outside of industry that is singled out for special treatment. ACC was no fault. Sure you have used ACC, as has many a rugby player, are they lining up to pay? So lets have some consistency here, it's user pays or it's no fault.

If I smoke I pay huge tax to the govt. Not sure of the figures, but that was a move taken over many years toward user pays. Fair enough we say, if I kill myself with smoke then why shouldn't I pay for my health care, it's my choice after all.

In our case frequently enough someone else kills us - and we pay. It's inequitable. The cagers should be subsidising us for their share of the carnage.

So if it's no fault then make it no fault, if it is a fault system then make it so, leave the costs on the cagers to cover their 50% (round figures).


Another issue stems from the way ACC is set up.
If I go and rip down a mountain side on a bicycle and head butt a tree, that's not a problem. Why should it be, we have a no fault system and the govt sees this as all dandy because I was partaking in a recreational activity.

I don't go flying down mountains on bicycles for recreation, but i do ride a motorcycle for recreation. Much - if not most of my motorcycle riding is for recreation. If I bin it on a recreational ride, well guess what. That is very bad, evil infact. Now how does this differ to the bicyclist? None, why aren't I funded from the recreational fund? Just because i choose the road for my recreation I am discriminated against.

Motorcyclsts are unique in using the road for recreation (OK not entirely, but none others use it to anywhere near the same degree) Why isn't our recreation funded from the recreation fund? That's where a huge portion of the cost properly lies.


Yet another issue is this. I have 2 bikes and a car. I only ever ride one or drive the car. Now ok, if we are going to have consumer pays, make it consumer pays across the board AND user pays once. Again, it is inequitable to have some users paying once and some paying 3 times - that's not user pays, it's user pays and pays and pays.

Excellent points made Stranger , I totally agree.

[arris]

I know they need to recover costs, but lets face it how many people ride drunk? how may boy Riders do we really see. how many bikes are ridden into crowds of people. How about we increase your ACC if you have a conviction for speeding, drink driving or a boy racer charge. How many "police" cars do u turns in front of bikes
- 2 bikers in rehab at what cost bet that went down as a bike accident in the stats too.

Why pick on bikes? its easy and the 70% of car drivers just dont get it so they agree, bikes = bad = cost so they think ok well its not affecting my car so i dont care.

A better fairer system is needed but government wont do jack shit because they know that 70% of driver are just glad its not them.

Protest may do something but we needed to show the media and hence the government we do care and we do count. I know of a bike collector who is looking and around 15k a year now, that sucks.

FTG - Screw ACC -- Tax Cut FAIL - VOte National get screwed - ACC Sale in 2010 start saving now

[Pussy]

IF extra funding is really required (it probably is), it should be taken across the board.
BUT motorcyclists as a whole can really help the cause by displaying to the "general public" a degree of responsibility. It's a fact that a few show-boaters have given the impression that ALL motorcyclists are idiots, and we're getting what we deserve. Think about it

[monkeymcbean]

Make 3rd party insurance complusory for all road users, this will add to the coffers tin, you imagine the extra cash this would bring in

[cs363]

Agreed , that would be a more fair system.

No, that idea still penalises owners of more than one bike. The levy should be for the person, not the vehicle.

[MSTRS:Me]

Make 3rd party insurance complusory for all road users, this will add to the coffers tin, you imagine the extra cash this would bring in

What's 3rd party cover got to do with personal injury? Know what you are talking about before you comment...

[Reckless]

What's 3rd party cover got to do with personal injury? Know what you are talking about before you comment...

Agreed, isn't 3rd party cover per bike not on the person?? as well!
So you'd still pay more than once??

[MSTRS:Me]

Agreed, isn't 3rd party cover per bike not on the person?? as well!
So you'd still pay more than once??

3rd party cover is on a particular vehicle, to cover damage to any other vehicle.
I agree that it still sucks that you'd pay per vehicle owned, yet can only operate one at a time.

[monkeymcbean]

What's 3rd party cover got to do with personal injury? Know what you are talking about before you comment...

Nothing really, its just another example of how silly the system is in that im (who is insured) pays for someone else who has a vehicle that can be uninsured.
ACC seems to be heading that way to....in that it is not thought through enough, at this point.

[NinjaNanna]

What's 3rd party cover got to do with personal injury? Know what you are talking about before you comment...

Semantics mate and all depends on where you come from.

In Australia:
Third Party, only covers personal injury to a third party and it is compulsary

Third Party Property, covers a third parties property but not yours. it is not compulsary.



In Australia Third party is the poor cousin version of a privatised ACC.

[firefighter]

What a crock
Theyve not kept ONE fuckin election promise...

So they're thrashing Labours record then

He's counting on us begging them to privatize rather than pay the Levy's

Sounds good to me, I already pay into private medical insurance

I have no need for GAYCC

[MSTRS:Me]

Semantics mate and all depends on where you come from.

Yep. And Monkeymcbean comes from Queenstown, not Queensland

[dogsnbikes]

I see everyone's all up in arms about this, and I can see why. Massive increases are hard to swallow, it hurts. But it's really simple maths. (Fuck this is going to make me unpopular)

ACC is running at a HUGE deficite. Massive. Something has to be done, a number of changes have been suggested by the government.

They've obviously worked out motorcycles cost more to rehabilitate and suffer worse injuries than other road users. And riders of bigger bikes suffer more than riders of small bikes.

So can somebody explain to me rationaly WHY we shouldn't be paying higher levies?

I'm also beginning to think riders of race bikes and dirt bikes should have to pay a levy for each visit to the track or trail. This could potentially lower the road bikes rates at the same time.

Nah your just created discussion,I wont mind paying more but I dont agree with how they have work it out,we do need to be a collective about it to get the right result for all

I agree with you in principle but many of us have more than one vehicle. Personally I have three registered vehilces. I don't see why the class of vehicle should attract the ACC levy. I have a license as do many others. I don't see why I can't be billed based on my license classes, base rate for the license plus $X for class 1, $X for class 6 so on and so forth. The method of delivery of this is screwed too, 126 - 600 cc costing $500 ? Sub 126 costing $250... this groups a GN250 with a GSXR600... bizarre....

If we are charged on per licence class the potenial for more unlicenced drivers/riders is there

what I would rather see is that we pay on a Kilowatt basis instead of a CC rating like the GN my CB250RS shouldn't be inclueded in the same class as and GSXR600 or R6 or my CBX750 in the same class as a ZX14 and so on

at the end of the day we will pay more, how much more and how fair it is to us as bikers will soley depend on how we unite and how we present our argument