Stop bitching and use your brains...

[Sanx]

Whilst I haven't waded through the hundreds of pages of posts on this topic (I haven't got the time, energy or capacity for illiterate drivel), most of the posts I've seen seem to follow the same script.

"Waaah. Not fair. All car driver's fault. Not gonna register the bike and run from the cops. Waaah."

How fucken typical of the average kiwi; whinge, whine and threaten to (but don't actually follow through) 'fuck the Police'.

Rather than challenging the 'fairness' of the increases, whining louder than the Maori party on Waitangi Day and coming over as a bunch of outlaw rebels seeking to cause mayhem and destruction on NZ's roads, why not do some research and challenge the justification for the increases. Question the figures behind them. New Zealand actually makes it quite easy to get statistics as most NZ agencies are pretty good at compiling them and publishing them on websites.

I realise that expecting the average biker to actually exercise their brains for anything other than bitching might be a little too much, but in the vain hope of encouraging it, I'll even start you off...

It has been claimed (notably by ACC lawyer Philip Schmidt on TN1's Breakfast Show - http://tr.im/BV0p) that the motorcycle levy increase was justified because motorcyclists' claims were disproportionally expensive.

But the figures state the complete opposite. In ACC's Injury Statistics 2008 report (http://tr.im/BV1k) ACC details claims against the Motor Vehicles account - the virtual pool that gets claimed upon whenever a road-registered vehicle is involved in an accident. The report gives statistics for the number of new claims, the number of active claims and the cost of those claims. As the report breaks down the claims by vehicle type, it's easy to compare the cost of claims:

Cyclists:
- 567 active claims
- $12,573,000
- $22,174 per claim

Pedestrians:
- 1115 active claims
- $24,494,000
- $21,967 per claim

Car Occupants:
- 8525 active claims
- $208,305,000
- $24,434 per claim

Motorcyclists:
- 3173 active claims
- $62,523,000
- $19,704 per claim

These figures are from the motor vehicle pool, which is automatically used whenever a road-registered vehicle is involved in an accident. It doesn't cover instances such as a bunch of cyclists (What is the collective term for cyclists? A 'pansy', perhaps.) crashing into each other, or a cyclist running into a pedestrian on a zebra crossing. Nor does it cover accidents on race tracks, mountain-bikers on dirt trails or motocrossers smacking into tree in Woodhill Forest.

Hmmm. So, according to ACC's own statistics, motorcyclists - per claim - actually have cheaper accidents than other groups. Yeah - probably 'cos more of them get killed dead men don't requirement treatment - but the statements made about bikers having disproportionately more serious (by which I mean expensive) accidents is simply and demonstrably false.

Well, what about Nick Smith's headline grabbing claim that motorcylists are 16 times more likely to be involved in an accident? The figure was rolled out ad nauseum to justify the increases and then repeated verbatim by media outlets too lazy to check. Does it not strike anyone else as a rather high figure - possibly the sort of statistic invented by a politician to try to excuse an outrageous tax hike? No? Must be just cynical old me then. Let's see if the figures support it.

This is where things get a little tricky. Whilst the statistics available are comprehensive, sometimes the breakdown of them isn't entirely condusive to making direct comparisons.

In the Ministry of Transport's Motor Vehicle Crashes in New Zealand report (http://tr.im/BV8c) the 2008 casualty rates for the whole vehicle fleet are given as:
- 1.1 deaths per 10,000 vehicles
- 47 injuries per 10,000 vehicles
- 34 injury crashes per 10,000 vehicles
- 8.6 deaths per 100,000 population
- 356 injuries per 100,000 population

Section 4 of the above report is dedicated to Motorcycle Casualties and Crashes and gives the 2008 motorcycle casualties as 1396 injured, 50 killed in 1378 seperate incidents. The total number of road-registered motorcycles (which includes mopeds) is given as 96952. So for motorcycles only, the statistics are:
- 5.2 deaths per 10,000 motorcycles
- 144 injuries per 10,000 motorcycles
- 142 crashes per 10,000 motorcycles

Hmm ... so deaths run at just under 5 times the average, injuries at just over 3 times the average and crashes at 4 and a bit times the average. Not 16 times though, and no way I've found to massage or selectively examine the figures can make bikers' accident rates 16 times the national average.

Perhaps they're using another measure of probability. By licence-holders, maybe. According to the Ministry of Transport's Driver Licence and Vehicle Fleet Statistics report (http://tr.im/BVoh) as of June 2008 there were 3150533 car licences in circulation and 483142 motorcycle licences in circulation. Remember that figure - that's half a million potential bikes and potential voters... Anyway - back to the statistics:

- Car injury crashes per 10,000 car licences: 24.2
- Bike injury crashes per 10,000 bike licences: 28.2

Oh ... and when looking at crashes by vehicle type, isn't it strange that cars and SUVs are listed seperately, but motorcycles and mopeds are lumped together.

I said earlier that the figures aren't 16 times the national average. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong ... perhaps I should be looking at another country's national average. Maybe it's the case in Greece, where 30.2% of all road deaths are motorcyclists. Incidentally, New Zealand has the third lowest percentage of the countries that report to the International Road Traffic and Accident Database; after Poland (at 4.9%) and Canada (at 7.3%) - both countries where there's snow on the ground for half the year).

I'm no statitician. But if I can spend an hour or so on Google and come up with this, then surely someone who's a) competent and b) is actually going to be affected by the levy increases can spend some actual time, do some proper research and publicly challenge the figures given by the government as justification.

[Pussy]

An intelligent piece of levity, Dan!

[DidJit]

Well done that man!

[Mully]

Egg Zachary.

Bling has been blung

[CookMySock]

Rather than challenging the 'fairness' of the increases, whining louder than the Maori party on Waitangi Day and coming over as a bunch of outlaw rebels seeking to cause mayhem and destruction on NZ's roads, why not do some research and challenge the justification for the increases.

Oh PUH LEEEEEASE!
When has that ever worked with the government? Don't you think they don't know that already?

Cyclists: $22,174 per claim
Pedestrians: $21,967 per claim
Car Occupants: $24,434 per claim
Motorcyclists: $19,704 per claim

Well that is an interesting statistic. But like I said, if they already know this, then how do we wave such a flag, and where do we wave it?

Steve

[Mully]

Well that is an interesting statistic. But like I said, if they already know this, then how do we wave such a flag, and where do we wave it?

Steve

Squeaky wheel bro. The powers that be are expecting all bikers to just bend over and take it (much like we did last time).

They are well aware of the unfairness of the increases proposed.

In answer to your question - we wave the damn flag everywhere. We (all) take part in protest rides (we all behave ourselves and act like responsible adults on the rides), we (all) write to the powers that be. We get the facts (not what the gummint wants everyone to think) out in the public's view. We present a solid view (i.e. we don't get caught up in the "Labour are cunts/National are liars" argument to the detriment of the focus argument)

The number of comments on the Stuff website that were along the lines of "I don't have a bike, but I don't think it's fair either" are a good sign. We need to keep the pressure on.

[DidJit]

Of course the government bureaucrats know it. The point is that they choose not to tell the general public — they only give the public one focus but nothing to compare it to. No balance, no perspective. That is why we have to point out these other figures to the general public. The way the politicians present their case forces the onus on us to prove that these proposed changes are grossly unfair.

[MSTRS:Me]

You are right about figures being published on the net. BUT it can be very difficult to find what you are looking for, though. Thanks for your efforts.
I've taken the liberty of sending that info to TVNZ and TV3...

[Coldrider]

Yes Sanx that is pretty cool work,Young Nick is selling it with lies, however the bridge to cross is, $62,523,000 in claims supported by 96,952 registered MCs works out to an Ave of $644.88.

[Sanx]

Oh PUH LEEEEEASE!
When has that ever worked with the government? Don't you think they don't know that already?

I'm sure they know it. The point is, though, that most other people don't know it and are happy to believe the crap that the government feeds them.

Well that is an interesting statistic. But like I said, if they already know this, then how do we wave such a flag, and where do we wave it?

I don't know, but there have to be people on KB or in the wider biking community who have more media savvy and contacts then me. But here are a couple of ideas for starters:

• Co-ordinate responses through a biking organisation. BRONZ, I guess, but try to keep that grumpy cunt of a chairman off the screen (Hi Ixion ).
• Letters help. Write in to the Letters to the Editor sections in NZ Herald, Dominion Post and whatever papers exist south of the Cook Strait. But for God's sake, try to make a point, make it concisely and clearly and - this might come as a shock - use a sodding spell-checker.
• Demand a right of reply on TVNZ, TV3 and whatever other channels there are.
• Phone up talkback ... they must have some listeners
• Write to your MP, whether they're National or Labour or Other. There've been a few sample letters floating around here but the ones I've seen were badly-worded, illogical and just generally shit.
• If your MP's having a public meeting, hijack it. Raise the issue there.
• Push the environmental aspects:
  
  • For each bike off the road, there's one more car on the road. Might not be true, but you need to state it as absolute fact.
  • Motorbikes have a smaller carbon footprint and use less fuel than cars. Again, it's not true for most sports bikes (600s actually use more fuel than 1000s!) but most people don't know it. So state it as absolute fact. What is true is that motorbikes don't spend vast tracts of times with their engines idling in traffic, so carbon footprint may be lower even if the manufacturer's fuel consumption figures are higher.
  • You can park five or more bikes in the space it takes to park one car.
• If anyone has a free lawyer with an eye for publicity, sue the government for compensation due to the drop in value of the bike, as the resale potential has dropped markedly.

[Laxi]

its funny I havn't heard this before but acording to the NZ transport agency web site
Common registration fees - from 1 July 2009

MR2A/2B Registration of motor vehicle (issued with standard plates) 6 months 12 months
Passenger car/van
Private passenger Petrol driven - 1301-2600 cc 267.91 388.06
Petrol driven - 2601-4000 cc 298.29 418.44
Non-petrol driven - 1301-2600 cc 330.15 512.52
Non-petrol driven - 2601-4000 cc 360.53 542.90
so this means the higher cc car is going to pay more too?
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/vehicle-owne...istration.html

[Coldrider]

What is the definition of an active claim, a new claim in any one year?

[Sanx]

Yes Sanx that is pretty cool work,Young Nick is selling it with lies, however the bridge to cross is, $62,523,000 in claims supported by 96,952 registered MCs works out to an Ave of $644.88.

$37,067,000 in claims by cyclists and pedestrians from the motor vehicle pool supported by zero levy-paying cyclists and pedestrians works out to an average of Error: Divide by zero.

There's the point to hammer home. Motorcyclists might not pay their own way, but cyclists and pedestrians pay absolutely nothing. Johnny Motorist supports them to the tune of $14 each.

Which reminds me of something. Remember the $70 each claim from Dr Smith and friends? Garbage. $62,523,000 in claims across 3764087 registered vehicles (total fee-paying vehicle fleet excluding motorbikes and mopeds) = $16.61 each.

Another blatant lie.

[MSTRS:Me]

Yes Sanx that is pretty cool work,Young Nick is selling it with lies, however the bridge to cross is, $62,523,000 in claims supported by 96,952 registered MCs works out to an Ave of $644.88.

So?
We also pay earner levies, like cyclists do...

[ckai]

...

But the figures state the complete opposite. In ACC's Injury Statistics 2008 report (http://tr.im/BV1k) ACC details claims against the Motor Vehicles account - the virtual pool that gets claimed upon whenever a road-registered vehicle is involved in an accident. The report gives statistics for the number of new claims, the number of active claims and the cost of those claims. As the report breaks down the claims by vehicle type, it's easy to compare the cost of claims:

Good hunting mate, blunged also. I was gonna say that you bitch about others not doing anything and yet you haven't taken this sort of thing to the media BUT then I noticed where you are so I understand you not doing it.

So instead I commend you on the effort. I thought the justification figures were a little "interesting" especially the 16 times more likely to crash thing. Too much of a stupid biker to dig for the real facts though (or is that lazy - I just wanna ride my bike without losing my nuts).

So if the government forced ACC to use your figures to create ACC levies, bikers would in fact have cheaper levies than cars! Wouldn't that be a turn around? haha

Hooraa