Total number of licences drivers

**NighthawkNZ:Me** · 24th October 2009, 11:21

So NZ has a population of 4.5mil.
We have a total fleet of registered vehicles of 4,125,932
(thats total including commercial)
I wouldn't want to guess at the unregisterd number of farm, trail and off road vehicles.

How and where do I find the number of licences holders ?

wonder if there is a way of calculating the number of vehicles on the road at any one time hmmmm

**James Deuce** · 24th October 2009, 11:30

http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...hicleFleet.pdf

**NighthawkNZ:Me** · 24th October 2009, 11:31

Originally Posted by James Deuce

http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...hicleFleet.pdf

cool thanx

**FJRider** · 24th October 2009, 11:37

Originally Posted by NighthawkNZ

How and where do I find the number of licences holders ?

According to stat's I saw in one thread here, 19% of motorcycle accidents involve unlicenced riders, or riders with the incorrect licence for the motorcycle being ridden. So even if you did find the figures you seek .... they could still be not be the actual/correct/possible figures.

**NighthawkNZ:Me** · 24th October 2009, 11:41

Originally Posted by FJRider

According to stat's I saw in one thread here, 19% of motorcycle accidents involve unlicenced riders, or riders with the incorrect licence for the motorcycle being ridden. So even if you did find the figures you seek .... they could still be not be the actual/correct/possible figures.

thats not what I am trying say either

if there is 3 million vehicles and only in total 1 million licences there the cross subsidisation arguement can be used

**FJRider** · 24th October 2009, 11:54

Originally Posted by NighthawkNZ

thats not what I am trying say either

if there is 3 million vehicles and only in total 1 million licences there the cross subsidisation arguement can be used

Difficult to do too. Considering the number of joint ownership vehicles, fleet vehicles with multiple possible drivers, rental vehicles with (overseas) licenced drivers possible.

All factors that could seriously affect outcome of such an arguement.

**Jantar** · 24th October 2009, 12:15

Originally Posted by James Deuce

http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...hicleFleet.pdf

Those are for 2004. The latest are at: http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...statistics.pdf

**James Deuce** · 24th October 2009, 12:44

That link wasn't working when I tried, so I grabbed the alternate. Sorry, 1200 things going on at once.

**davereid** · 24th October 2009, 13:16

Originally Posted by NighthawkNZ

if there is 3 million vehicles and only in total 1 million licences there the cross subsidisation arguement can be used

ACC management dont actually understand their own business. ACC is actually in the business of cross subsidisation.

ACC works by the paradox of being unfair to be fair.

Those who dont have accidents, subsidise the treatment and rehabilition of those who do.

The "charge those to whom the costs lie" argument is actually an argument for the abolition of the ACC system, its just that ACC management don't understand that.

As bikers, our problem is not one of "subsidy", "fairness", or "risk". Our problem is that we are separately accounted for, as a small group.

Lets say for example, that we kept on reducing the size of the group we account for, so we can charge "fairer and fairer" premiums.

Lets reduce it to a size of 1, the individual. Then we can charge a really fair premium, with no subsidy from anyone. You fall over, you get hurt, we fix you, and we charge all the costs of your fix up. (Plus heaps for our management of it.)

Now thats really fair !

**Pedrostt500** · 24th October 2009, 20:18

To shoot down ACCs cross subsidisation argument, you need to find the numbers of vechicles Registered to single owners, and then the number of those owners who's second vechicle is a motorcycle or number of motorcycles, and the number of vechicle owners whos second vechicle is a car or number cars.

**BMWST?** · 24th October 2009, 20:27

Originally Posted by Pedrostt500

To shoot down ACCs cross subsidisation argument, you need to find the numbers of vechicles Registered to single owners, and then the number of those owners who's second vechicle is a motorcycle or number of motorcycles, and the number of vechicle owners whos second vechicle is a car or number cars.

and once you find out how may license holders there are and you can work out the levy per license instead of per vehicle...(just for interests sake)

**Ixion** · 24th October 2009, 20:32

If I had access to MoT data (not ACC data) that would be easy enough.

Select all vehicles having count(registered_owner ) > 1, and join that to select all vehicles where type = motorcycle.

That would give you all people owning a motorcycle and another vehicle

Pseudocode, obviously

They should be able to do it with an OIA request. Getting the request to someone who actually understands is the problem

**NighthawkNZ:Me** · 24th October 2009, 20:34

Originally Posted by Ixion

If I had access to MoT data (not ACC data) that would be easy enough.

Select all vehicles having count(registered_owner ) > 1, and join that to select all vehicles where type = motorcycle.

That would give you all people owning a motorcycle and another vehicle

Pseudocode, obviously

They should be able to do it with an OIA request. Getting the request to someone who actually understands is the problem

thats what I thought... but I understand databases as you

**maxf** · 24th October 2009, 21:09

Originally Posted by Ixion

If I had access to MoT data (not ACC data) that would be easy enough.

Select all vehicles having count(registered_owner ) > 1, and join that to select all vehicles where type = motorcycle.

That would give you all people owning a motorcycle and another vehicle Pseudocode, obviously

They should be able to do it with an OIA request. Getting the request to someone who actually understands is the problem

I'd do the SQL for you if you wanted - but you'd never get the information, I'm guessing it would be deemed "commercially sensitive" (even though ACC is state-owned, state-funded and exists by legislative fiat!)...

Only other consequence I can think of - with approx 410000 full motorcycle-licence holders, let alone the 480K total, has anyone spelt it out to their MPs that if even only half of us get get us pissed off enough, we could be a political force 1/4 larger than the Greens? (have a laugh here http://www.elections.org.nz/record/2...l-results.html for the 2008 election results - hell, the Greens got 9 seats only on 157000 votes!) Maybe something of a "sort out this ACC shit properly, or otherwise your next term will be the coalition from hell".

(rant on) Any one for membership? Only need a charter & 500 "paid" members (gold coin at the next rally?) with contact details for voting (KB poll?

) ... http://www.elections.org.nz/record/r...l-parties.html ... Personally tempting - think of all the Standing Orders ready for "process reengineering" - no more voting on party proxy, you're physically there; no more perks; no more jetting around, use the roads like the rest of the country (and see what they've become); no more voting under Urgency in the middle of the night; no more ... hell lots of things! (rant off)

Max