What are you fighting for?

[R6_kid:Me]

A Sportster 883 Iron is not 40% faster than a GSXR600. For example. Neither is a TRX850.

My 'point' was aimed at the people simply bitching about the monetary cost - not the flaws in the system, or how they intend to bracket the 'risk'. Mainly because there are a number of people that still at the point of "OMG not $250/$500/$750" and haven't bothered to look into what real route problems are - which those doing the investigation work are finding out.

I've had three bikers come up to me today and bitch about the cost, without justifying why not, simply saying that it was 'just too much money'...

[danielle]

Sucks doesnt it when you think about it. And i do agree there should be something else to cover it not ACC

[danielle]

Btw i wasnt trying to start an arguement, just trying to point out that other people are suffering to this change too

[firefighter]

I wouldnt go thr mate. Yeah there should be something else to cover them, but thr aint. In my eyes if a chick gets raped, its not exactly on purpose is it. Just because a person gets raped doesnt give them a mental illness. Bloody hell.

I'm pretty sure the rape was intentional, and yes I am going there.

I'm not saying there should'nt be funding, or that it should be cut, so don't get your knickers in a twist because you miss-interpreted me.

The sickness benefit is'nt for people with mental illnesses, it's for; sick, injured, disabled persons or pregnant women who;

•have had to reduce your hours
•have had to stop working
•are not working, or are working part-time, and find it hard to look for and do full-time work.

So really, those suffering from depression, also something I mentioned (are they less important to you than the rape victims?) and the suicide/rape etc victims should really be covered here.

Just because a person gets raped doesnt give them a mental illness. Bloody hell.

Then what's the funding for?

Mental illness does'nt just mean schizopherenia, it covers a far broader area than you obviously realise.

If your mental status has been affected, and you need councelling, then it's a mental illness, it does'nt mean your crazy, it just means you need help.

Not everone with mental illnesses either short or long term are licking windows.....

[danielle]

Like i said, i wasnt trying to start a fight just giving my opinion

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0910/S00281.htm

[DidJit]

Did somebody say, "Divide and conquer..."

Is this the time to be discussing what should/shouldn't be covered in our imperfect system? Let's focus on what we do agree on: unfairly picking on motorcyclists is just not right. That's what is unifying us right now. Let's not fall back into our usual ways just yet. Once we have that particular proposal kicked into touch, we can move onto the next agenda — creating utopia.

[firefighter]

That's what is unifying us right now

All but the O.P who seems to be on an individual conquest!

Still, only one who's not on our side, not a bad effort!

[Ender EnZed]

One thought that did cross my mind is how many dangerous/reckless riders are going to be priced out of riding by the increase? In my eyes the riders who are not doing anything 'wrong' (sensible riders) are most likely able to afford the increase

Only poor people crash? I think your eyes need some work.

Wealth does not equal Sensible Riding.

[The Stranger:Me]

From reading all the 'spam' posts that have come up about the proposed ACC levy increase it would seem that many people are simply opposed to paying more for their ACC levy, whether that be $50 more or $500 more.

I think what people need to understand is that an increase is justified (given that the books don't balance) and that it would be better if we are seen as campaigning for a fairer amount, rather than just out and out bitching/complaining that 'we don't/can't pay upto $750+ a year for ACC levy on our rego'.

The majority of people who have taken proper action regarding the increase, such as looking at the statistics and doing some research into what we 'actually' cost etc, are already on the right path.

One thought that did cross my mind is how many dangerous/reckless riders are going to be priced out of riding by the increase? In my eyes the riders who are not doing anything 'wrong' (sensible riders) are most likely able to afford the increase although they may have more trouble justifying the expense to their better half! I know a number of people that pay more in speeding tickets in a 12 month period than the proposed increase will be!

No, no, no.

They can deal with the dangerous and reckless riders with the current laws.

We should be on an equal footing with others.
We should be on an equal footing with cyclists. Why not? What is their contribution?

It goes against the original concept - which it was sold to us on no fault, no blame. Ok, times change and sometimes the original concept proves flawed, so change it across the board - why sinlge only motorcycles out? Why not rugby players and cyclists etc etc etc? So if the concept must be changed keep it equitable.

User pays they say. This isn't user pays, it's fucken victim pays.
If it is user pays then let the cages pay their share - as they are now. Victim pays is against all principals of law - well the few that I know of.

If we accept that we should pay a differing portion, who's to say what that portion is? The govt that's who. This only leaves the quantum open, and if the quantum is open then it is open for review at some time in the future - oh wait, it's the future now and they are damn well trying to review it - so guess what, we'll be having this problem later - or they will just sneak it up by stealth, $50.00 per year and we'll pay it, and pay and pay and pay.

NO the principal we should be fighting for is even stevens with other users OR everyone is on the victim pays system. It should be all or nothing, to fight for anything else is to fight for communism i.e. an exercise in futility.

[PrincessBandit]

A good point/s but as things have happened at pace and we've been left standing still, ACC deserves everything we can thow it's way while this mess is sorted out.
If this happens many riders who have nurtured their bikes and included their families in their pastime are going to have to walk away. Criminally inclined and speeding ticket gathers will simply ride unregistered and of course uninsured as always.So guess what, we the ordianry riders will still cop the flak for them as always.

Unfortunately that is the way our country seems to work, in lots of areas.

The way I read the propaganda coming from the govt and ACC makes it sound like all of a sudden there is this big hole in money caused by motorcyclists. The reality is that WE are being told to pay for decades worth of screwups and bludgers dating back to before most of us were even old enough to drive/ride a vehicle.
Balu printed off a police stats (Crash Analysis System) report reckless had posted on pg 2 of "Answer from the AA, new statistics", and those stats covered the time frame of 2003 - 2008. They did make for pretty sobering reading as far as motorbikes were concerned, but how do they stack up compared to going back, say, 20 years? I read elsewhere that long term motorbikes have not increased all that much in their stat input yet car stats have trebled.
The report also pointed out that in that time frame 14% of all fatals and 18% of all serious injury of road crashes were motorcycle accidents. I am assuming they are referring to road crashes as these figures are from the MoTs "Safer Journeys" consultation document. So how are the balance of those stats made up? huh? huh?

[davereid]

ACC is using the "fairness" argument here merely as a diversion, for which many have fallen.

Its not fair that bad drivers pay the same as good drivers.
Its not fair that my mums Daihatsu costs the same as my SS V8.
Its not fair that my mum does 400km a year and I do 30,000 but we pay the same.
Its not fair that cyclists cost more than bikers but pay nothing.

ACC are just picking on bikers because they are planning on eliminating us by taxation.

The "fair" rate doesn't exist. Everyone should pay the same.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

It goes against the original concept - which it was sold to us on no fault, no blame. Ok, times change and sometimes the original concept proves flawed, so change it across the board - why sinlge only motorcycles out? Why not rugby players and cyclists etc etc etc? So if the concept must be changed keep it equitable.

ACC is no going broke though... it made more than enough money to cover all accidents for the year plus left over...

The problem is in 1999 they are changed from a "pay as you go" to a "Fully funded" way of operating...

[The Stranger:Me]

ACC is using the "fairness" argument here merely as a diversion, for which many have fallen.

Its not fair that bad drivers pay the same as good drivers.
Its not fair that my mums Daihatsu costs the same as my SS V8.
Its not fair that my mum does 400km a year and I do 30,000 but we pay the same.
Its not fair that cyclists cost more than bikers but pay nothing.

ACC are just picking on bikers because they are planning on eliminating us by taxation.

The "fair" rate doesn't exist. Everyone should pay the same.

That's fair.

[The Stranger:Me]

ACC is no going roke though... it made more than enough money to cover all accidents for the year plus left over...

The problem is in 1999 they are changed from a "pay as you go" to a "Fully funded" way of operating...

Regardless of the reason for change, change it did.
That doesn't detract from my argument - if change is to be made it should be made on an equitable basis.

[pzkpfw]

Whatever happens, this campaign is not going to make the whole ACC system change.

All we are going to achieve right now will be a limiting of the increase.


If we really want to make a change (e.g. either remove differential fees or make them fairer by getting the stats made better and getting other "minorities" to pay their way; and/or change the way vehicle fees are paid; etc. ...) we have to keep up the pressure in the long-term - to get the laws that govern ACC changed.

I'm not convinced we'll do that.

(Partly because that becomes an issue wider than motorcyclists concerns.)