Personal medical insurance

**Ragingrob** · 15th October 2009, 20:39

So currently I have 100% personal medical insurance... I didn't ask for ACC so why do I need to pay it?? Maybe alongside the increase in the levy, one road to go down is to make ACC an optional levy especially for those with medical insurance sorted.

Just a thought

Would this be a viable option do ya reckon?

**ynot slow** · 15th October 2009, 20:46

I had surgical cover for $20k then with inflation was $35000 per operation,had it from 1991 till 2008 when proving to expensive,had used it once or twice,so got my premiums worth.My thoughts just after I took it out for the family(at the time)was I play sport,and have 2 vehicles as well as medical cover,so said I should recieve rebate from rego,at the time insurance cost $500pa,and paying rego cost us $200 or so in ACC.My attitude was if you had private medical cover maybe you get a rebate on rego.

**Janight667** · 27th October 2009, 20:30

Originally Posted by Ragingrob

So currently I have 100% personal medical insurance... I didn't ask for ACC so why do I need to pay it?? Maybe alongside the increase in the levy, one road to go down is to make ACC an optional levy especially for those with medical insurance sorted.

Just a thought

Would this be a viable option do ya reckon?

I have had the same thought.. and funny that all the tin top's in support of this increase that ive spoken to, dont/cant come up with an argument against the medical idea..

But i cant see ACC letting this slide. it would bankrupt them! ACC is a good idea, but after 9yrs of labour treating it like a doll queue - It just aint going to work.

They say it is a 'user pays' society... if we dont want to use it then why are we paying it??

I may be looking at it all wrong tho...

**R6_kid:Me** · 27th October 2009, 20:36

How about this:

My father is self-employed, currently working as a contractor in the Australian Desert at a mine. His company is NZ based, and pays himself wages in New Zealand dollars. As he works in Australia he is not covered by ACC, yet they want him to pay ACC on his wages as they are being paid in New Zealand.

So he's paying ACC levies for a service he isn't entitled to use?

He also has 100% medical insurance.

**Usarka** · 27th October 2009, 20:40

Your medical insurance does not cover accidents that are currently covered by ACC. (try and get sthn cross to pay for an expensive operation due to an accident

)

Take away ACC and your premiums will go up, because your private insurer will take on more liability.

And do you think a private insurer will factor in the fact that you ride a motorcycle when calculating the premiums? (hint: yes).

**MacD** · 27th October 2009, 20:48

Originally Posted by Ragingrob

So currently I have 100% personal medical insurance... I didn't ask for ACC so why do I need to pay it?? Maybe alongside the increase in the levy, one road to go down is to make ACC an optional levy especially for those with medical insurance sorted.

Just a thought

Would this be a viable option do ya reckon?

Private Medical Insurance in NZ is priced on the basis that ACC pays for accident care, not your medical insurance. In fact, medical insurance in NZ basically only pays for elective treatments. If you wind up seriously ill you will be in a public hospital anyhow as they have the high dependency/intensive care facilities.

If you didn't have ACC cover automatically, then your private medical insurance would cost significantly more, and given that the international comparison figures (see the 2008 PriceWaterhouseCoopers report I've posted elsewhere) show that ACC is more cost efficient than equivalent private systems such as in Australia, you would likely pay more overall.

Also, while your medical insurance might cover you in the event of an accident, you would also need 3rd party public liability insurance to cover injuries to others that you might cause.

It's not as simple as ACT would like to have you believe.

Finally, a small anecdote about private medical insurance. I've had it for years, but haven't claimed in a long time. I finally made a small (<$2K) claim last year. Now my most recent 6 month premium has increased by 36% on the previous year!

**Ragingrob** · 27th October 2009, 20:48

Originally Posted by Usarka

Your medical insurance does not cover accidents that are currently covered by ACC. (try and get sthn cross to pay for an expensive operation due to an accident

)

Take away ACC and your premiums will go up, because your private insurer will take on more liability.

And do you think a private insurer will factor in the fact that you ride a motorcycle when calculating the premiums? (hint: yes).

So I have to hurt myself on purpose to get medical insurance?

My medical insurance will quite happily pay for the specialist I'm seeing next week, if acc will not cover it 100%.

**Usarka** · 27th October 2009, 20:53

Originally Posted by Ragingrob

So I have to hurt myself on purpose to get medical insurance?

My medical insurance will quite happily pay for the specialist I'm seeing next week, if acc will not cover it 100%.

If it was due to an accident then try claiming the whole lot on insurance and let us know how you get on - it won't happen.

**lanci** · 27th October 2009, 20:54

This is exactly right, currently health insurers do not require much, in terms of high risk activity declaration outside of scuba diving as ACC covers pretty much all of that. Premiums for bikers (as mentioned earlier) will cope a massive increase in premium paid as it will be deemed a high risk activity.

Usarka you are a smart man/woman, green rep.

Originally Posted by Usarka

Your medical insurance does not cover accidents that are currently covered by ACC. (try and get sthn cross to pay for an expensive operation due to an accident

)

Take away ACC and your premiums will go up, because your private insurer will take on more liability.

And do you think a private insurer will factor in the fact that you ride a motorcycle when calculating the premiums? (hint: yes).

**Ragingrob** · 27th October 2009, 20:59

Originally Posted by Usarka

If it was due to an accident then try claiming the whole lot on insurance and let us know how you get on - it won't happen.

My insurance covers 100% any specialist visits... Thank you very much

**lanci** · 27th October 2009, 20:59

Medical insurance generally covers things that ones body does to destroy itself i.e. cancer, tumors, gall bladder removal, joint replacement through age etc etc

Originally Posted by Ragingrob

So I have to hurt myself on purpose to get medical insurance?

My medical insurance will quite happily pay for the specialist I'm seeing next week, if acc will not cover it 100%.

**Ixion** · 27th October 2009, 21:11

Originally Posted by Ragingrob

So currently I have 100% personal medical insurance... I didn't ask for ACC so why do I need to pay it?? Maybe alongside the increase in the levy, one road to go down is to make ACC an optional levy especially for those with medical insurance sorted.

Just a thought

Would this be a viable option do ya reckon?

Cos, firstly, your medical insurance won't entirely cover you against accidents. Go check your policy. It will say "Any condition or treatment relating to an accident we only cover what ACC won't". Or similar.

So, your premiums are a LOT cheaper cos of that. If there were no ACC, you'd pay a SHIT load more for your insurance.

And ACC doesn't just cover YOU. It covers you against third party liability for any third party random you bugger up. Overseas, that can land you with a bill for maybe $20 million bucks.

Thirdly ACC doesn't just provide medical cover. It provides earnings compensation (and lump sums).

Maybe not so significant at your time of life, but wait until the time comes when you have six kids , a wife who can't work cos she's 6 months gone with the seventh (to the spunk next door, like five of the previous) and a huge mortgage. (Oh, yes that time WILL come) . And you get buggered up. Believe me you will be SO glad of ACC

**lanci** · 27th October 2009, 21:15

Agreed. The implications of no ACC coverage will send personal insurance premiums to levels equal or greater than that of you current personal insurance + ACC levies!

Originally Posted by Ixion

Cos, firstly, your medical insurance won't entirely cover you against accidents. Go check your policy. It will say "Any condition or treatment relating to an accident we only cover what ACC won't". Or similar.

So, your premiums are a LOT cheaper cos of that. If there were no ACC, you'd pay a SHIT load more for your insurance.

And ACC doesn't just cover YOU. It covers you against third party liability for any third party random you bugger up. Overseas, that can land you with a bill for maybe $20 million bucks.

Thirdly ACC doesn't just provide medical cover. It provides earnings compensation (and lump sums).

Maybe not so significant at your time of life, but wait until the time comes when you have six kids , a wife who can't work cos she's 6 months gone with the seventh (to the spunk next door, like five of the previous) and a huge mortgage. (Oh, yes that time WILL come) . And you get buggered up. Believe me you will be SO glad of ACC

**MacD** · 27th October 2009, 21:19

Originally Posted by Ragingrob

My insurance covers 100% any specialist visits... Thank you very much

I don't know who you are insured with, but here's an example of a standard Southern Cross Policy with relation to injury claims (my bold):

HOW DOES MY Southern Cross POLICY FIT WITH ACUTE CARE?
This policy is designed to provide cover for eligible healthcare services and so we will not reimburse charges for acute care.
If you need acute care you should go directly to your nearest Accident and Emergency unit in a public hospital.

HOW DOES MY SOUTHERN CROSS POLICY FIT WITH ACC?
Your UltraCare plan will not provide cover for accident treatment or treatment injury expenses that ACC is legally responsible for. In some cases ACC will not pay the full amount charged for your treatment. In these cases you may be able to make a claim under your policy.
Special conditions apply to accident and treatment injury related surgery. Under the ACC legislation, you can choose between full cover (where your provider is fully contracted by ACC to provide your procedure at no cost to you) or partial cover (where your provider is partially contracted by ACC to provide your procedure and you will be required to contribute towards the surgery costs). The full cover option should be your first choice as you may not have to make any contribution to your surgery costs. By comparison, under the partial cover option you will have to make a contribution towards the costs of the healthcare service.
The following chart has been included to describe how your cover for healthcare services related to an accident or treatment injury works under your policy in an easy-to-understand format.
Where you require a healthcare service related to an accident or treatment injury you must make every reasonable effort to obtain ACC approval for payment of the cost of your healthcare service.
This includes signing all documents and performing all acts necessary to permit Southern Cross to fully protect and realise any entitlement either on your behalf or in its own right.