Nick Smith Auckland Nat meeting open to public

[RiderInBlack]

Come on Dudes, there is many other threads in which we can discuss why we are battling the preposed ACC Levy increases. Here we need to stick to where we can meet to discuss how we are going to handle Nick's Myth on Nov 30th. Please keep to that thanks.

[Waxxa]

Warkworth is fine but can we define the time a bit more? may I make a suggestion of 1pm sharp? meeting gets underway...

[drummer]

Hey Drummer
Don't bottle out now cocker, it's all on.
You can't control what will happen so you might as well just surf along from now on....
What's the worst that can happen?
The Nats send you to the naughty step?
Old Nick has a melt down?
Santa Clause is coming to town..
Santa Clause is coming to town....
Santa Clause IS coming to town.

I aren't concerned in the slightest what the Nats think of me... but I AM concerned about what our image should be as bikers... surely we don't want people off side... hey this is not about the Nats, or anyone personally in my books.. its about the end result... bringing down bike levies.. for years we have sat around doing nothing but still paying more than cars... now all hell has broken loose because of the unjustified increase... don't lose sight of the target... its about ACC policy being NO-Fault... just attacking Smith won't do our cause any good at all... but making him look incompetent and forcing him to change his mind through ours and the publics support is essential.

Peter

[RiderInBlack]

I aren't concerned in the slightest what the Nats think of me... but I AM concerned about what our image should be as bikers... surely we don't want people off side... hey this is not about the Nats, or anyone personally in my books.. its about the end result... bringing down bike levies.. for years we have sat around doing nothing but still paying more than cars... now all hell has broken loose because of the unjustified increase... don't lose sight of the target... its about ACC policy being NO-Fault... just attacking Smith won't do our cause any good at all... but making him look incompetent and forcing him to change his mind through ours and the publics support is essential.

Peter

Exectly. Don't forget though that there is more at stake than just the Levy on Bikes, the whole ACC NO-Faults system is at stake.

[Ixion]

Can the time be a bit better than "sunday PM " thats a bit vague & you can't really have a meeting if there isn't a time to be there !

I'll be there for lunch around noon.

Let's say 1:30 to start discussions. But I'm seeing thios as a relaxed sort of thing, not a formal meeting. Just like we'd chew things opver online here, but away from prying eyes.

So if y' want time to grab a beer first , say 1 pm. If you're a teetotaller , 2

[Lucyloo]

Hi Ixion
My partner and I will be there on Monday but can't make the Sunday briefing.
Please keep us posted - via pm if necessary.
Thanks
Luce.

[Max Headroom]

I intend being at the Monday night meeting, but I won't be able to make it to the Sunday briefing either.

[Ixion]

..
Oh and Les, good luck with this effort, great idea meeting offline

It's a pain really. Rather not do it, makes it difficult to get everyone n the loop.

But the alternative is sending him full details of what we are going to do days in advance. Which gives his spin doctors loads of time to program him with suitable answers.

We need to keep some element of surprise, keep him guessing a bit.

And I can't think of any online way to discuss things that can't be snooped.

[Ronin]

It's a pain really. Rather not do it, makes it difficult to get everyone n the loop.

But the alternative is sending him full details of what we are going to do days in advance. Which gives his spin doctors loads of time to program him with suitable answers.

We need to keep some element of surprise, keep him guessing a bit.

And I can't think of any online way to discuss things that can't be snooped.

Or leaked.......

[yachtie10]

It's a pain really. Rather not do it, makes it difficult to get everyone n the loop.

But the alternative is sending him full details of what we are going to do days in advance. Which gives his spin doctors loads of time to program him with suitable answers.

We need to keep some element of surprise, keep him guessing a bit.

And I can't think of any online way to discuss things that can't be snooped.

Im all for the offline discussion
but why cant you have an invitation only forum online for the same purpose?

[drummer]

Exectly. Don't forget though that there is more at stake than just the Levy on Bikes, the whole ACC NO-Faults system is at stake.

Absolutely.... but it hasn't really been a no fault organisation anyhow... the user pays system has always been in place... but it contradicts the no-fault system and policy that the ACC was founded on. Fault suggests user pays... thats the case in road transport and industry but doesn't apply in sport or recreation... I don't pay a single cent of rego or ACC levy on my boat.. I don't even need a license... however I have had more need of ACC with my boat (spike in hand... $2000 plus) and damaged knee (again $2000 plus) than all (two only both caused by cars and total ACC was well under $1000) accidents on my road bikes..

We have to convince the Smithy boy and the government at large that this is blatantly unfair... not cause a riot.

I spoke with the MC today for the meeting, they are fully aware that there will be protests... evidently they are expecting it... Nick Smith has had protests at every public engagement it seems... I was told quite emphatically that if the bikers try to shout and disrupt he will do two things... turn the other people against us and if necessary close the meeting. That would be a PR worse case scenario ... It would give the government MORE ammo against us... public opinion over minority groups is hugely important to the government... we as a minority group don't need to alienate the public.. anyone who thinks this is very silly... why on earth.. (especially with the gang thing so much in the news lately) would we be an unruly mob? Do we really want that.. I do NOT... I am not and will not be part of an unruly loud inside protest. I stand against it absolutely... its not about letting Smith off... its about letting him say his piece and about us picking that apart piece by piece until his argument for increased and unfair levies is completely dismantles... If anyone here thinks its about just making Smith angry and the public mad they ought to really look at why they want to protest.

Intelligence guys and girls, not silliness. will win our cause.

I was also told that if there was any threat made or violence leading up to the meeting the meeting would be canceled...

Do we want this? NO.. Ian... please absolutely take note...

Peter

[Ixion]

We sort of tried that, but it gets impossible to manage once you get past about 10 members. Unfortunately, the way it works is that only the group owner can do the inviting bit. Which quickly gets into a full time job. Fine if we want an area to (reasonably) securely discuss things between maybe a dozen people. Not so hot if the numbers are greater.

And the only way for someone to ask to be invited is to PM the group owner. Who of course will not always be online. And then of course you have the problem that if a request is received "can I have access to the discussion please. thanks" , you really may have no idea at all who this person is. Unless he is silly enough to pick a user name like NickRocks or something.

At least in meatspace we can see the person. If they arrive in a car , and wear size 16 boots we can be pretty suspicious. I guess a bikie cop could arrive in mufti and we wouldn't know. It's an imperfect world. And of course a meatspace meeting, a snoop would either have to rig himself up with recording equipment or make notes, bit obvious.

I thought of email too, but it still doesn't work well.

[Squiggles]

As a member of the 12 that sat in your office on Tuesday the 17th, i'm still yet to recieve your figures as promised. I left my contact details on a submission on your desk, have you read it?

[Ixion]

... its about letting him say his piece and about us picking that apart piece by piece until his argument for increased and unfair levies is completely dismantles... ..

Do you really imagine that any meeting chairman (given that he is a National hack) is going to stand by and allow that.

The only effect of meekly turning up and sitting nice and submissive while Nick makes his speech is that Nick will make his points,and the chairman will close down ANY attempt at 'discussion'.

This is NOT a neutral meeting. This is a National propaganda event and they will NOT allow us to put their Minister on the spot. I'm seriously wondering about your bona fides here.

A meeting where all we do is quietly sit and listen to Nick telling us how wonderful he is , and that we should be very grateful our levies are not even higher, and at the end of his speech we meekly go away is NOT going to be good for us.

The Chairman of the meeting will NOT allow Nick to be put on the spot. It is the easiest thing in the world for the Chair to close down any discussion that is not going the way he wants.

If the meeting were a neutral one with a neutral chair,I'd agree with you. It's not and the only way we will make our point is to take control of the meeting.

[drummer]

Do you really imagine that any meeting chairman (given that he is a National hack) is going to stand by and allow that.

The only effect of meekly turning up and sitting nice and submissive while Nick makes his speech is that Nick will make his points,and the chairman will close down ANY attempt at 'discussion'.

This is NOT a neutral meeting. This is a National propaganda event and they will NOT allow us to put their Minister on the spot. I'm seriously wondering about your bona fides here.

A meeting where all we do is quietly sit and listen to Nick telling us how wonderful he is , and that we should be very grateful our levies are not even higher, and at the end of his speech we meekly go away is NOT going to be good for us.

The Chairman of the meeting will NOT allow Nick to be put on the spot. It is the easiest thing in the world for the Chair to close down any discussion that is not going the way he wants.

If the meeting were a neutral one with a neutral chair,I'd agree with you. It's not and the only way we will make our point is to take control of the meeting.

OK.. a few points.. and some good points made by you.

Your idea of a neutral chair sounds interesting. Why don't we propose at the beginning of the meeting the chair (A Nat branch chairman) is replaced with a neutral one. One from the audience. It could be done...

Also could we suggest that the speech be capped at 10 mins max. If we approach it like that then it would have a good effect.

Most people won't be National hacks... they may be Nat voters but I have seen some sticky questions get asked in the past.

I totally agree we should take charge... absolutely but at the right time in the right way. Question time is normally far longer than the 'speech". I believe allowing him to speak will give is bullet points on which to debate and raise issues. WE also should remember that just arguing isn't debating... and surely thats what we need to do.

As for "I'm seriously wondering about your bona fides here"... I hope that you aren't serious... I am totally pissed off at the government over this... even more so than many because I assisted in their victory... to me its like being stabbed in the back by your former best mate... it hurts and I am seething with anger. However, I also know the party and politics in general very well. I know how these meetings work and am doing my level best to convince people that the best way to go is not go in balls and all... but go in as intelligent people and ask questions that will sway not only Smith but the party hacks and the public... it CAN be done...

For the record.. in case u missed the previous post some days ago.. I was dumped from the local Nats after arguing on a certain policy... you think I'm their favorite son... you have to be kidding!

Peter