Nick Smith Auckland Nat meeting open to public

**Wonko** · 6th December 2009, 20:27

One thing that I took from the meeting was that there is currently no clear way that ACC gets to associate accidents caused by a car vs motorbike or other reason for the accident. In short if your in an accident it is classed as a Motorbike accident.

From now on if/when you need to claim ACC for a motorbike related injury make sure that the form is fulled out as "motor vehicle".

The result is that there will be less claims against the motor bike section of the ACC's vehicle fund, resulting in a lower $$ of payouts. Less dollars payed out means less dollars required to fund.

If all claims were considered motor vehicle claims there would be no distinction for motor bikes. ergo no need for higher costs for motorbikes.

This does not get around the real problem of vast increases to the ACC premiums.

**flyingcrocodile46** · 6th December 2009, 21:04

Originally Posted by MSTRS

We don't give a fuck whether it does. Or not.
We've made it clear.
Parity with cars.
We don't have it now, but we are not prepared for the gap to be widened.

Well Gosh! Don't shoot the messenger, ya grumpy fuck

**drummer** · 6th December 2009, 21:06

Originally Posted by Wonko

One thing that I took from the meeting was that there is currently no clear way that ACC gets to associate accidents caused by a car vs motorbike or other reason for the accident. In short if your in an accident it is classed as a Motorbike accident.

From now on if/when you need to claim ACC for a motorbike related injury make sure that the form is fulled out as "motor vehicle".

much merit in this... dam good advice

Peter

**drummer** · 6th December 2009, 22:10

Originally Posted by MSTRS

We don't give a fuck whether it does. Or not.
We've made it clear.
Parity with cars.
We don't have it now, but we are not prepared for the gap to be widened.

we don't have it now... but we want it or even lower... lets get real./... any difference is unfair... Remember the question about Maori having a higher accident rate at the meeting?.. would he tax them higher.. of course not... nor would we want it.... its as stupid as the higher levy on bikes

Peter

**drummer** · 7th December 2009, 07:46

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Bowls is a biggie...do you have any idea how many people die playing that sport every year??

Funny story.. i tried social bowls for a while... cheap drinks and some fun... it wasn't bad... then i got serious along with another couple of guys.. I went to a coaching day and we had a lecture on safety and injuries... it was hilarious... this youngish (for bowls) guy who is a paramed lectured for an hour... all things were covered.. evidently the message we were meant to take away from it was that Bowls is a very dangerous sport.. and that we should all actually wear helmets and full leathers... and never walk too fast...

Thats when I quit!

A bit of a drink and social bowls on Friday night is still a bit of fun though.

As far as the ACC protest goes... anyone interested in a co-ordinated approach to protesting and speaking with branch and electorate chairmen and women.. put the pressure on the weakest link so to speak?

Peter

**NONONO** · 7th December 2009, 20:44

Originally Posted by drummer

Funny story.. i tried social bowls for a while... cheap drinks and some fun... it wasn't bad... then i got serious along with another couple of guys.. I went to a coaching day and we had a lecture on safety and injuries... it was hilarious... this youngish (for bowls) guy who is a paramed lectured for an hour... all things were covered.. evidently the message we were meant to take away from it was that Bowls is a very dangerous sport.. and that we should all actually wear helmets and full leathers... and never walk too fast...

Thats when I quit!

A bit of a drink and social bowls on Friday night is still a bit of fun though.

As far as the ACC protest goes... anyone interested in a co-ordinated approach to protesting and speaking with branch and electorate chairmen and women.. put the pressure on the weakest link so to speak?

Peter

Two questions .
Will they listen?
Will someone strap me down so I can't chew their throats out?
Just that Nats smell of cardboard brief cases and overpowering perfume brings out the "Twilight" in me.

**drummer** · 8th December 2009, 17:30

Originally Posted by NONONO

Two questions .
Will they listen?
Will someone strap me down so I can't chew their throats out?
Just that Nats smell of cardboard brief cases and overpowering perfume brings out the "Twilight" in me.

Well I think that we should more force them to listen with continued pressure.. and if you want anything to break, you pressure the weakest link... they are the old party hacks who are in safe elctorates who have never really had pressure applied... its like the MC at the meeting.. a bit of pressure on him has I believe broken him politically.. I don't wish for him or any person to be broken personally.. but I do honestly believe breaking the Nats resolve about this starts with the branches...

I say chew them out absolutely... get a list of branch chairman and woman in your area and go get them politically... they WILL break... then the electorate chairman... for example the Tamaki electorate chairman has a political weakness of being totally complacent about his position and the political colour of the area.. I know, I was in his branch! . He saw what we did at the meeting and for the first time I have known over a few years was quiet.. I guessed overwhelmed.. again politically... because underneath, these people are the same as us all.. passionate about a cause but in their case often not politically strong enough to resist true concentrated opposition.

By the way.. there is someone here passing this info onto the Nats at Tamaki.. personally I hope they hear it... its a warning that they are to be opposed... perhaps for the first time.. I want them running scared of their positions and power.. it transforms into a fear that will drive change.

I just ask one question of that KB spy... copy and paste the whole post you send to National branch chairman... not just parts which damage the recipient personally, thats below the belt. Plus... if its unethical that person wants... well now...

Hope this kinda answers your questions!

Peter

**MSTRS:Me** · 8th December 2009, 17:33

Originally Posted by drummer

By the way.. there is someone here passing this info onto the Nats at Tamaki.. personally I hope they hear it... its a warning that they are to be opposed... perhaps for the first time..

I just ask one question of that KB member... copy and paste the whole post... not just parts which damage the recipient personally, thats below the belt.

Peter

So, a gutless 5th columnist eh? One who would use part of the info to create a certain impression? Sounds VERY familiar.
Only way to counter that is to get in first. With ALL the info. In context.

**Ixion** · 8th December 2009, 17:35

Originally Posted by drummer

..
I say chew them out absolutely... get a list of branch chairman and woman in your area and go get them politically... they WILL break... then the electorate chairman... for example the Tamaki electorate chairman has a political wekness of being totally complacent.. he saw what we did at the meeting and for the first time I have known over a few years was quiet...

Well and good, but how?

The Nick Smith meeting was unusual in being open to the public. Party meetings are usually for party members only IIUC.

And the NS meeting was also an easier target because it was specifically about ACC. To completely hijack a meeting one requires an overwhelming majority present. We didn't have that at the NS meeting, and we certainly didn't have it at the only other electorate meeting we tried for , at Pukekohe, where six bikes turned up and looked silly, outnumbered about 6 to 1.

**caseye** · 8th December 2009, 17:52

Something I've said before, we seem to have lost a large niumber of willing able bodied riders from our ranks.
Where are they?
Why are they not turning up, asking when and where etc.
Are we doing enough to spread the word? should we perhaps literally advertise, newspapers, radio, TV if we can that we want all concerned motorcyclists to meet somewhere, ie: the Domain, to talk about whats Next and get some hard numbers and volunteers who Will ride everywhere!

**drummer** · 8th December 2009, 18:12

Originally Posted by Ixion

Well and good, but how?

The Nick Smith meeting was unusual in being open to the public. Party meetings are usually for party members only IIUC.
.

Yes they are... inside the building... but outside is public space... also... many if not most meetings feature drinkies and I know for sure people leave over the limit.. now especially with Christmas parties being held... the drinks are flowing and the drivers not all sober... ACC pays HUGE amounts for drunk driver accidents... what a ay to press our point of fairness.. simply follow or observe drivers as they come from the meetings... chat to them... and watch them drive off... simple call... bang!

Even if they aren't.. if they know we are watching the drunk driver situation I know their parties won't be exactly well remembered..

Simply also contacting the chairman and asking for comments then quoting them in all forums and media we can get ould have a devistating effect.. and if you think they ont talk... they all do... even if they don't there are the little people... the exec members of the branches... quote quote quote!! Break them from that weakest link

Peter

**drummer** · 8th December 2009, 18:19

Originally Posted by caseye

Something I've said before, we seem to have lost a large niumber of willing able bodied riders from our ranks.
Where are they?
Why are they not turning up, asking when and where etc.
Are we doing enough to spread the word? should we perhaps literally advertise, newspapers, radio, TV if we can that we want all concerned motorcyclists to meet somewhere, ie: the Domain, to talk about whats Next and get some hard numbers and volunteers who Will ride everywhere!

I believe there are those (here mostly) who are passionate about bikes and those who just ride.. then there are those who don't care... it is said for every protester there are up to 1000 who would like to... there is some truth in that..

Never forget the movie "The Power of One" and what ONE man did in Germany and to the world in the 30's and 40's.. what ONE man did for the world when he made an electric light bulb... I firmly believe that its not always outright numbers that count, its WHAT those people do... outnumbered 6 to 1... sad but not impossible... in fact sometimes a small number at a meeting can absolutely turn the subject around.. I did it as the only non ACT person at an ACT meeting with Douglas... completely ruined the meeting and made Roger dodger look like a first class twat!

Peter

**flyingcrocodile46** · 8th December 2009, 22:24

Originally Posted by caseye

Something I've said before, we seem to have lost a large niumber of willing able bodied riders from our ranks.
Where are they?
Why are they not turning up, asking when and where etc.
Are we doing enough to spread the word? should we perhaps literally advertise, newspapers, radio, TV if we can that we want all concerned motorcyclists to meet somewhere, ie: the Domain, to talk about whats Next and get some hard numbers and volunteers who Will ride everywhere!

Perhaps they have tired of talking around in circles or been subjected to a baseless accusations of being "fifth columnists" by addled cheerleaders