Clutchless shifting?

**Wren** · 24th October 2009, 18:55

Just a question.Is this healthy for the bike and if so how do you do it properly?

**ching_ching** · 24th October 2009, 19:13

Hi Wren.

I've had no qualms with the bikes I've owned when shifting clutchless. The gear boxes have stood up to it no probs (I'm talking upshifting here). The only non-japper I owned was a buell firebolt 1200 and it upshifted no probs at all while the jappas with their cassette type close ratio boxes are a breeze. Basically you blip the thrott off momentarily (as per usual as if you were going to use the clutch) then change up quick smart - no dramas. Go on son... geev eet a gaooo!!

**Wren** · 24th October 2009, 19:20

yeah thanks for that .I have a Triumph Daytona 955i.

**bogan** · 24th October 2009, 19:22

I assume you mean preload shifting, you put pressure on the shift lever (upshift this is) the torque being transfered through the gearbox holds it in gear. Blip off the throttle, which removes the torque and thus allows the shift. This type of shifting is quicker, but wears the dogs due to the preloading.

**p.dath** · 24th October 2009, 19:27

I' ve been working on the idea that if it feels easy on the 'box then it is ok.

I tend to manual shift 1st to 2nd, and then go clutchless from there. But having said that, even then most of the time I still use the clutch. I ride on the road, and the milliseconds of time that it saves me makes no difference to my riding.

**skidMark** · 24th October 2009, 19:36

I'm the same as pdath, clutch first to 2nd.... for the rest of the gears, roll off the throttle to take the load off a bit shift and back on the gas.... just shift as you would with clutch but don't use it, if you are getting a jolt/ graunch practise it until you can get it smooth... i found learning it on downshifts was a bit easier... or practise in the upper gears on the motorway etc, rather than trying to learn it thrashing the bike in the twisties...

it verys when i use the clutch... ask any motorcrosser and they will tell you how they use the clutch not just for changing gears... you can also incorperate this into your riding... but don't try learn it all at once or youll have more than a buggered gearbox to worry about, i do clutch my katana though being an older bike, newer bikes it's not so much of an issue.

**bogan** · 24th October 2009, 19:46

Originally Posted by skidMark

...
it verys when i use the clutch... ask any motorcrosser and they will tell you how they use the clutch not just for changing gears... you can also incorperate this into your riding... but don't try learn it all at once or youll have more than a buggered gearbox to worry about, i do clutch my katana though being an older bike, newer bikes it's not so much of an issue.

true, though theres a lot more factors in mx, with all the bumps it basically impossible to preload shift, trying to hang on to it takes so much effort (for me anyways) that using the clutch for shifting results in severe arm pump after 5-10mins (track dependant). Cos i ride a two stroke I often have to clutch it to get back on the pipe, main use for it actually. You dont have the arm pump issue on road bikes, and its apparently nicer on the box to do clutch shifts. Remember the engine has to change revs for every shift, the quicker the shift, the less time all that rotational inertia has to change speed, resulting in higher forces in the box. My observations anyway, at the end of the day; horses for courses

**Kickaha** · 24th October 2009, 20:00

Originally Posted by bogan

I assume you mean preload shifting, you put pressure on the shift lever (upshift this is) the torque being transfered through the gearbox holds it in gear. Blip off the throttle, which removes the torque and thus allows the shift. This type of shifting is quicker, but wears the dogs due to the preloading.

You don't need to preload to shift, you roll off the throttle as you change up, do it all the time on the Ducati as it's smoother to change

**YellowDog** · 24th October 2009, 20:10

Originally Posted by Kickaha

You don't need to preload to shift, you roll off the throttle as you change up, do it all the time on the Ducati as it's smoother to change

Agreed. You can change up and down a great deal faster and more smoothly without the clutch. Just focus on getting the engine speed right.

Ideal for when you have a pillion on the back. Helps reduce the chance of an odd helmet bang.

**discotex** · 24th October 2009, 20:50

Originally Posted by Kickaha

You don't need to preload to shift, you roll off the throttle as you change up, do it all the time on the Ducati as it's smoother to change

Exactly..... There's no need to preload (and munt your gearbox) to shift without the clutch. You just let off the gas a little like you would when normally changing gears.

The best way to start is to reach for your clutch as if you were going to pull it in but just don't - instead just tap it with your fingers. Do everything else like you normally would.

I only bother at high revs on the track so I don't over-rev. Letting completely off the gas and pulling in the clutch when you're at the throttle stop is rather tricky and time consuming to get right.

**Maki** · 24th October 2009, 21:15

No preload + smooth shift and you will have no problems.

I used to shift clutch less all the time when i had a 250. I needed every advantage I could get to keep up with faster folks. I usually use the clutch on my 600...