Ulysses please explain why you're selling us out

[Ixion]

Our political allies are looking at the consultation question. It only requires that the Minister consult those he considers "appropriate" . It's really only of political value.

[StoneY]

Guys, lets not bash Ulysses up

I just had a chat with Peter Mac
He is disapointed in the retoric here, his reply will come to me for posting here via e-mail

Nick has not been in direct contact with the minister at all
Ulysses have made NO deals, Nick is lying

Ulysses wish to work TOGETHER here so calm down and wait for Peters reply which I will post seperately so the clutter does not diminish it

Ulysses are as much a victim of propaganda here as we are from what I have heard direct from thier president guys (who btw gave me a telling off for my own comments earlier in thread, might be deserved too TBH)

WE, have jumped the gun, and gone on Nix Myth word, without even asking Ulysses what was said to whom, they are adamant they made NO agreement with Nicky

[Mully]

Our political allies are looking at the consultation question. It only requires that the Minister consult those he considers "appropriate" . It's really only of political value.

Except that he would be opening himself (and the Gummint) up to potential legal action if he failed to "reasonably" consult "in good faith".

Guys, lets not bash Ulysses up

Nick has not been in direct contact with the minister at all
Ulysses have made NO deals, Nick is lying

Ulysses wish to work TOGETHER here so calm down and wait for Peters reply which I will post seperately so the clutter does not diminish it

Ulysses are as much a victim of propaganda here as we are from what I have heard direct from thier president guys

Which is pretty much what I surmised.

Onya StoneY

[Reckless]

Guys, lets not bash Ulysses up

I just had a chat with Peter Mac
He is disapointed in the retoric here, his reply will come to me for posting here via e-mail

Nick has not been in direct contact with the minister at all
Ulysses have made NO deals, Nick is lying

Ulysses wish to work TOGETHER here so calm down and wait for Peters reply which I will post seperately so the clutter does not diminish it

Ulysses are as much a victim of propaganda here as we are from what I have heard direct from thier president guys (who btw gave me a telling off for my own comments earlier in thread, might be deserved too TBH)

WE, have jumped the gun, and gone on Nix Myth word, without even asking Ulysses what was said to whom, they are adamant they made NO agreement with Nicky

Which is pretty much what I surmised.

Onya StoneY

Agreed same as what I said earlier. Thats good enough for me! Even two people's word I have never met over that dodgy Nicks Myth bloke!

Thanks for getting onto it and letting us know Stoney!

[avgas]

WE, have jumped the gun, and gone on Nix Myth word, without even asking Ulysses what was said to whom, they are adamant they made NO agreement with Nicky

Its called transparency.
Sounds to me like Ulysses have some governance issues. Either that or they have got with their hand in the jar.
Frankly I thought a group like Ulysses would be a bit more vocal about what they have found talking to Nick. What do they gain by keeping it quiet?

[StoneY]

In all honesty Peter Mac rang me up and tore me a new one, and deservedly so

Ulysses stepped up on the BIKEOI
We swallowed Nick's hook, line and sinker, and he reeled us in, and were meant to know a troll when we see one...sigh

Peter e-mailing me soon, I will post his statement up

[StoneY]

Dear Minister Smith

I was highly alarmed to see on the news last night your statement about ‘reaching an agreement’ with the Ulysses club of New Zealand in regards to how the ACC levy’s are to be re-directed to rider safety etc
This is a fine idea in principle, but does not address the core issue here, ACC is NOT broke, there is NO need for a levy increase, and you are still insisting on providing false data to the New Zealand public

I understand from first hand conversation with the President of Ulysses this is not an agreement or any sort of vindication from them, and that they are concerned their suggestions have been taken as ‘a unilateral agreement on behalf of all motorcyclists’ as are the rest of the motorcycle community

Ulysses are well respected members of the nationwide fraternity, but in no way do they represent the entire NZ Motorcycle fraternity, they are a small percentage of the total and are not by any stretch of the imagination a lobbying body with the authority to speak on my (or anyone other than their memberships) behalf

Our community has already seen this attempt at misinformation via media release for exactly what it is, another attempt to divide and conquer

I would urge you to continue to keep dialogue open with BRONZ, Ulysses, HOG and WIMA, but to treat any one of these bodies as a ‘official consultation’ when dealing with only one of any of the above mentioned organizations is an insult to the New Zealand public. This was discussed on the 17th and you invited the key players to continue discussion….this has not yet occurred yet you claim last night a deal has been struck!

We came in numbers with only 3 weeks to prepare our campaign sir, if we have to return again we will, and even bigger, to remind you we are not trout’s, we are not stupid, and we DO remember

Regards,

Brent Hutchison
BIKEOI Organizer

[Reckless]

Dear Minister Smith

I was highly alarmed to see on the news last night your statement about ‘reaching an agreement’ with the Ulysses club of New Zealand

Was it on the news Stoney? Where mate?

[StoneY]

Was mentioned on late news, quick summary, no video

But yep he clearly said its an 'agreement' and then I read the thread, oh bugger........

Wonder if hes gonna publish the speech on his or Nat's websites?

[RiderInBlack]

Obviously a "Divide And Concur" tactic by Nick Myth. I wouldn't buy into it. Can't see the Ulysses Riders up here going for that.

So from what StoneY is saying here, I was totally right with what I posted before. "WE" (and in that term I mean KB) should owe Ulysses an appoligy here. Ya'd think we would know a "Troll" when we see one by now on KB, but Nick Myth had us hooked and played with us. We need ta make Tricky Nickie wish he hadn't "Hooked" us.

[Brian d marge]

something I suggested from the outset but both Ulysseus and BRONZ condemned

yes but you must ask them nicely first ...its only proper

Then you shit in the wash basin

Just wish this had happened 20 years ago with other issues

Stephen

On a separate note

With Cullen coming out with the Muver of all rescue packages. (IS) There really is something bigger than this ?

They cannot ( for reasons I don't know why yet ) cannot keep borrowing at this current rate

we are exporting the shoes of our kids feet and still not making ends meet ?

Wonder why

Stephen

[SPman]

Just out of curiosity how much is it to register bike in OZZY.

In WA its about $220 for a 250 or less and about $235 for over 250cc. Rego fee of $33 for small and $50 for big bikes, third party injury insurance about $150-160 and the rest in sundries and GST.

[Tone165]

Who is "us"? The problem is that motorcyclists are as diverse as the rest of the population in their views. I wouldn't actually object to paying more if it was equitable i.e if the groups you mentioned paid their share too.

However, there is something I object to even more. However much money we pay, it's simply "cost plus" inasmuch that it's not addressing the root cause of accidents so the position will never improve unless there are initiatives to reduce accidents by raising driving standards. Just paying out as ACC suggest is simply a gross waste of taxpayer money and there's no way I would support that on its own.

I didn't know about the Ulysses suggestion but it sounds that they're trying to address the route cause.

You say that Ulysses don't represent you. Possibly not, but your views as stated don't represent me either. No offence intended.

I pretty much agree with this also.

Too much "Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff" and not enough "Fence at the top" sort of thinking here.

General driver standards (of all types of road vehicles) are pretty dismal, we could take a lesson from the Yanks here, who incorporate "Driver Education" in the high school curiculum.

Calls for removal or bikeproofing of cheese cutter and Armco fencing has been largely ignored, sending the message that the authorities don't care about motorcyclist safety, yet figures that MUST contain the very data that has been presented to have something done there, is now used against us, to prove what a liability we are.

People are not as gullible or easy to mislead as the media or govt want to beleive, but as some clever person once noted..

the only thing that has to happen for bad things to happen is for good ppl to do nothing. (or words to that general effect)

[caseye]

Ulysses were simply asked to explain Mr Smiths comment.The rest of course is History.it's taken nearly 24 hours to get any sort of response from Ulysses, this is understandable but that response is critical and we must make absolutely clear that at this point in time, no One Group has the power to speak for Bikers in general at least not until all the relevant groups have meet and discussed and agreed on who actually does and should speak for us.
My own humble opinion is that the group/organisation who should be given the task of representing the majority of bikers is BRONZ.
For a measley $25.00 you and your family become BRONZ members and they get some badly needed fighting funds.
If all you hairy arsed bikers out there simply joined the organisation of your choice it would quickly become apparent which group should represent the average NZ Motorcyclist.

[Blackbird]

People are not as gullible or easy to mislead as the media or govt want to beleive, but as some clever person once noted..

the only thing that has to happen for bad things to happen is for good ppl to do nothing. (or words to that general effect)

Yep and one definition of Insanity is: "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". I think that this also sums up both Labour and National attitude to motoring/riding initiatives.