The snakes is coming back!

[dipshit]

Utter fuckin bullshit dude
Were you even riding/driving back then?

Yes i was.

The TRAFFIC cops joined MOT to be TRAFFIC cops, they wre never 'second choice' options

While there were recruits that went straight into the MoT... some trainees that weren't doing so well at police training college went into the MoT as well.

So failed police training college recruits did go into the MoT. That's not saying all MoT officers were failed police recruits.

I trust this logic isn't beyond your comprehension..???

[Mikkel]

The first paragraph is lovely, it shows us where the problem is:

New specialist traffic officers will be used to issue speeding tickets, freeing police to concentrate on fighting crime.

Because that is what traffic policing in New Zealand boils down to. And how sad that is, there's so much more to work with really. At least they admit that speeding isn't a crime...

And the proposed segregation is a pretty silly idea as well. It'd be much better to instruct the police officers to only spend time enforcing traffic violations when they felt it justified to do so - and that they be encouraged to use their own discretion.
At least, if they go back to the old system I hope they put the silly "Have to wear a Hat" rule back into practice - I can see how that could be a lot of fun.

[neels]

Of course what all of this means is probably more cops on the road, with proper police still being able to issue traffic infringements as well as traffic officers who are specifically issuing traffic tickets.

They probably need to increase their manpower to stop all those bikes to check registration once the new ACC levies come in.

[roogazza]

While there were recruits that went straight into the MoT... some trainees that weren't doing so well at police training college went into the MoT as well.

So failed police training college recruits did go into the MoT. That's not saying all MoT officers were failed police recruits.

Getting near the facts ! If a recruit failed at the Police college they could well apply to attend the MOT school if they wished to be a traffic Cop.
They were totally separate departments and standards/requirements were vastly different in those days.

[Ixion]

Bear in mind that even back in MoT days, the "proper" police *could* issue tickets for traffic offences. Just, they hardly ever bothered unless it was something real serious. I imagine the same will happen with a new traffic department after a while. Police will use discretion unless it's blatent.

[BoristheBiter]

All this is just PC bullshit.
It’s about time people started demanding more from the courts.
If they started putting criminals away with proper sentences instead of letting them out that would free up a lot more time.

[StoneY]

Yes i was.




While there were recruits that went straight into the MoT... some trainees that weren't doing so well at police training college went into the MoT as well.

So failed police training college recruits did go into the MoT. That's not saying all MoT officers were failed police recruits.

I trust this logic isn't beyond your comprehension..???

Totally different training colleges, totally different organisations, totally different recruiting standards

Police back before the training college in Papakowhai opened trained in Auckland somewhere, MOT trained in Trentham on a dedicated section of the Army base there, opposite the at the time GM factory

The Papkowhai College opened, and not long after MOT was disbanded, never the twain met, EVER so where you get this idea 'failed cops became MOT' I have no idea

There was no cross training, no shared central comms, they both had totally seperate systems, training, and resources until 1990


MOT avoided failed cop applicants as policy, they wanted people dedicated to the role, not accepting second best option, and the same reasons they failed Police would have often made them less than appealing to MOT who had a very high recruiting bar.
I personally know one failed MOT applicant that successfully joined the Police!

He failed to come up to the standards required in motor vehicle handling skills with MOT, Police took him in instantly, go figure that one out

[Ixion]

..

There was no cross training, no shared central comms, they both had totally seperate systems, training, and resources until 1990


MOT avoided failed cop applicants as policy, they wanted people dedicated to the role, not accepting second best option, and the same reasons they failed Police would have often made them less than appealing to MOT who had a very high recruiting bar.
I personally know one failed MOT applicant that successfully joined the Police!

He failed to come up to the standards required in motor vehicle handling skills with MOT, Police took him in instantly, go figure that one out

That's quite logical. MoT focused on vehicle stuff, driving AND RIDING skills were critical. Police, that was a much lower priority. Different skill sets, different people.

Which is why the merger was a bad idea. Police is about catching criminals, rules of evidence , all that stuff. Traffic is about keeping the roads safe and trying to make people drive competently and safely (and being able to catch the ones who run).

I'd say, if this goes through, doing a runner will be a lot less likely to succeed. And begin a general fuckwit on the road a lot more likely to get the fuckwit pulled over.

Which is all good by me. I never had much problem with the snakes (well, I *did*, but even then I knew it was my own fault).

I wonder if we could persuade the new force to make bike time compulsory , as it was with the MoT ? *THAT* would be a big win.

The real bummer is that they've lost 20 years worth of good snakes, like Mr Giradin. It will take time to rebuild. And as the pay will probably be lower, I can't see many existing cops transferring over.

[pritch]

Back to the future...

TOs may have had a narrower range of the law with which they had to be familiar but they had a higher degree of expertise in that area than the average PC. The TOs generally made all their decisions at the roadside. PCs often take it back to the station for discussion and approval.

The MOT were better organised in a lot of ways than the Police. The MOT had seven shifts, each of which had specific duties that went with it. The Police had just three shifts. In the days of 10.00PM closing the PCs were all back writing up their paperwork or getting ready to start work at the same time as all the drunks hit the road.

The TOs had the car at home so they were on the job as soon as they exited their driveway. Now they have to drive in to town and pick up a car and the reverse at night. They used to do all their paperwork in the car, after the merger in some instances they had to go back to the office and type it all up... All in all they are on the job a lot less than they used to be.

Of course all of this was told to me by a former MoT chief so he may have been a bit biased?

I had pause to think last night, as I did a very ummm marginal(?) stop at a stop sign that there are many more misdemeanors go unpunished since the merger. Previously there would have been a significant risk of a traffic car being parked nearby watching the corner for exactly such behaviour.

Pessimistic as it may be I feel the new arrangement may just combine the worst of both worlds...

[Ixion]

Back to the future...

..

I had pause to think last night, as I did a very ummm marginal(?) stop at a stop sign that there are many more misdemeanors go unpunished since the merger. Previously there would have been a significant risk of a traffic car being parked nearby watching the corner for exactly such behaviour.

Pessimistic as it may be I feel the new arrangement may just combine the worst of both worlds...

Yes. That is the sort of misdemeanor that the snakes used to be hot on. Nowadays the risk of being pinged for failure to stop at a stop sign, going through a red light , or similar, has become very small indeed.

Personally I think that " significant risk of a traffic car being parked nearby watching the corner for exactly such behaviour" would be a good thing. The snakes concentrated on *bad driving* more than *breaking the rules*. Hopefully the new force may adopt a similar attitude.

As you say, the MoT had a narrower focus, but a much better understanding of what they did focus on. So they know what was dangerous, not just what was breaking the rules. That's good by me.

[roogazza]

Police back before the training college in Papakowhai opened trained in Auckland somewhere, MOT trained in Trentham on a dedicated section of the Army base there, opposite the at the time GM factory

Close ! Police College was at Trentham,(an ex ww2 training camp) I graduated in 73 and was an instructor there from about 77 and then Papakowhai till 85.
Auckland did attempt breeding coppers briefly,when numbers were short. But I can only remember 1 or 2 wings passing out up there ???? Gaz.

[dipshit]

He failed to come up to the standards required in motor vehicle handling skills with MOT, Police took him in instantly, go figure that one out

And you are naive enough to think that didn't happen the other way around as well..???

By the sound of it this person knows what went on... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...4&postcount=19

[avgas]

Where do I sign up.
fuck being an engineer - I want some fun.

[oldrider]

They already have dedicated traffic cops, but the problem is those are fully trained front line police officers, doing a very limited task.

I agree with Howard on using officially designated traffic officers.
Far less manoey needed to train them as opposed to full cops, free's cops up to bust P labs, and allows for a focussed traffic safety approach to road management as opposed to 'revenue collection by Police'

A great move forward (far from backwards) The closure of the dedicated road policing unit of MOT in 1990 was a huge mistake IMHO

I'm not so sure!

When an arrest is required, the "unwarranted traffic cops" will have to enlist a "warranted police officer" to carry out the arrest!

That will mean doubling or trebling the cost and manpower will be drawn away from (publicly perceived) real crime again!

There are a lot of traffic situations that now call for an arrest!

Suggested solution: Less conflicting or useless laws and more police, fewer lawyers and sort and weed out the poor performing judges!

[pritch]

As you say, the MoT had a narrower focus, but a much better understanding of what they did focus on. So they know what was dangerous, not just what was breaking the rules. That's good by me.

Absolutely! Good by me too. Unless of course I was temporarily discombobulated (thanks Shaun) for being at the centre of their attention.