slower paced rides

[inlinefour]

Good to hear. Live life at your own pace bro, don't worry about the rest

[Ixion]

As many of you will know, it ride not just like your nana, but like your nana's nana.

Not because I don't know *how* to go round the corners faster , but because I really really hate the idea of being hurt. And sure I can go round the bendy bits faster (though not as fast as the guys on sports bikes of course). But, unlike them, I am always aware that around *this* corner is Harry Huriup, in his 4WD, on the wrong side of the road as usual. And a pile of pea gravel, on top of a big puddle of diesel . Justy before the pile of wet leaves. Where the bend tightens up at the start of the unsignposted roadworks . So I slow down to allow for all those things. The fast guys don't. They know that none of them are there. And mostly they are right. Mostly. And maybe when they do encounter Harry or the gravel, their skills are developed enough to get them out of trouble. Hopefully

I stopped riding with groups years ago because no matter what people say, it always develops into a chase with the pace being set by the faster, or less risk averse, riders.

I grant that most rides will have a "wait for people to catch up" break. But the psycological pressure to "keep up" is very strong. Nobody really wants to be the guy that everybody's always waiting for.

I see what some of the newer riders say about riding with the faster guys giving an opportunity to learn how to get round the corners faster. But, to me, (no disrespect to anyone, here) that's part of the problem.

Learning how to go round corners fast is good, because when you know how to go round fast, it allows you more margin to go round a bit slower. But the reality is , that once people learn how to go round the twisties fast, they go round them fast. And don't worry about Harry, or the gravel, that isn't there. Until one day Harry is there. Or the gravel. Because no-one's really taught them about Harry, or the gravel, and how to dodge them on a bend

I'm not advocating anything , and I'm not making any anti statements. Like I said, I ride like nana's nana. But is has kept me unhurt, and my bikes unbent, for 40 years and half a million k's.

[XTC]

I think mikey and surfchick have both made some good points here.

I've been on rides where everybody has shot off into the distance, and I've push too hard to keep up.

We all know it's procedure that the ride will stop to regroup at turnoffs, but I think we are being unrealistic to suggest that people won't try to keep up the pace.

I think part of the problem is the metric that is used to measure ability - the length of time it takes to get from point a to point b. I keep reading in ride reports comments about how well someone was doing based upon their pace.

When you're learning to ride you want to have the respect of the more experienced riders. I've pushed too hard trying to achieve this, and have the x-rays to show for it.

I think we need to reevaluate the metrics we use in discussing riders ability- for instance the ability to pick a good safe line through a corner, rather than how quick they can clear it.

As riders we have to take responsibility for new riders on our rides. I don't believe that just stopping for them to catch up is adequate.

A new rider will be getting more tired than an experienced rider, and will need more rest at each stop to recover. I don't think we can rely on new riders to ask for a few minutes rest at a stop. When there are a dozen other riders who are ready to get going just as you've pulled in, you don't want to feel like you're holding anyone up.

I think we each have to be aware of this, and encourage new riders to take a break if they need it.

To reduce the tendency to try to catch up, we need to be prepared to take turns staying with beginner riders. It makes them feel like they belong on the ride, gives them the chance to pick up on good riding technique, and an opportunity for you to observe their riding and give them feedback.

Advertising the intended pace of rides is also of benefit. i.e. "suitable for faster riders" vs "cruise" gives new riders the chance to choose rides suitable for their ability.

I'd say the people going on rides have got more diverse in their paces since I've been involved here, which does mean there's likely to be someone riding at a similar pace to you. However I still think these are points to consider.

Good with words aint ya You can come along with us on our slow gravel infested rides again any time you want - Andy.
Ps: got that chook chaser yet???

[Mr Skid]

Ps: got that chook chaser yet???

Working on it..

Does anyone have a old ratty looking XT600/DR650/XR600 they want to sell cheap to a poor staving student so he can get out of sportsbikes before he breaks any other bits of himself?

[Drunken Monkey]

Working on it..

Does anyone have a old ratty looking XT600/DR650/XR600 they want to sell cheap to a poor staving student so he can get out of sportsbikes before he breaks any other bits of himself?

Dude, isn't that why you got out of performance cars?

Stop messing about and buy a pushbike :P

[Dafe]

I'm going to restate what I've already stated in other threads:

Group riding with all ages and motorcycle types is great for everybody.
The problem arises when the big bike decides to put the foot down and gun it.
It is not the sole responsibility of a newbie rider to know when to back off from trying to keep up.
The responsibility is shared between the bigger bike and the smaller bike.

If you're on a big CC bike and you're riding with 250's in the group, then you need to be responsible and slow down. Because we all know that when we we're young and started riding, we never knew where the limits lay, just as the young guys today don't know! So we should not be instrumental in assisting them to push themselves out of their safe zones.

If you can't resist gunning it when with the 250 riders, then you should really be riding in a big boys club.
As a large bike rider, the most simple way to saferide in a mixed group is to ride midway or towards the back of the pack. Definately not by leading. Leave the lead for an experienced smaller CC bike.

To all you smaller 250cc riders, don't cut off your opportunities to ride and learn from the experience offered from big bike riders, you can learn from them rather than learning from mistakes.

[Mr Skid]

Dude, isn't that why you got out of performance cars?

Stop messing about and buy a pushbike :P

I didn't realise I was into performance cars.. I certainly wouldn't think of a 1.6L front wheel drive as 'performance'.
I already have a pushbike, though I think I would get frowned on taking it on adventure rides. It gets a bit hairy doing skids on it as well, as you have get on the rear brake quite agressively to get it to step out..

[XTC]

Working on it..

Does anyone have a old ratty looking XT600/DR650/XR600 they want to sell cheap to a poor staving student so he can get out of sportsbikes before he breaks any other bits of himself?

This could be you
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...n-26347665.htm

[mikey]

in light of all the bad rep i received for my

extremely insensitive

"did he die"

about sam on urgent thread i have edited it out.

those that havent or thoxse that want to again feel free to bad rep me on this one as i believe i copy of ""URGENT"" is going to sams family.

[Paul in NZ]

It you think about the physics and actual dynamics of group riding, the person who is at the back is ALWAYS going to have to go harder to keep up.

Next time you are at the lights look how the traffic goes from squeezed up close to spread out.. It just can't be helped!

Racing is VERY different....

There are several ways to solve this but it requires a bit of organisation..

Organisation cannot replace self control which is ultimately what is required.

Cheers

[Velox]

If you're on a big CC bike and you're riding with 250's in the group, then you need to be responsible and slow down. Because we all know that when we we're young and started riding, we never knew where the limits lay, just as the young guys today don't know! So we should not be instrumental in assisting them to push themselves out of their safe zones.

If you can't resist gunning it when with the 250 riders, then you should really be riding in a big boys club.
As a large bike rider, the most simple way to saferide in a mixed group is to ride midway or towards the back of the pack. Definately not by leading. Leave the lead for an experienced smaller CC bike.

To all you smaller 250cc riders, don't cut off your opportunities to ride and learn from the experience offered from big bike riders, you can learn from them rather than learning from mistakes.

Hmmm - I don't know about that. I think the big bikes should be free to do their own thing and the smaller ones just need to know their limits. Btw - I'm not implying anything about Flyin because we have no idea what actually happened. I totally agree with the re-grouping thing. And yeah there is "pyschological pressure" to try keep up with the big bikes but perhaps that's the thing that needs to be sorted out. I don't reckon having smaller bikes on rides should make the bigger bikes have to have 'less fun' and end up going on separate rides.
But it's all about getting the right balance between booting it and knowing where your limits are eh? Personally, I think I rode pretty much the same with little bikes as I did with big bikes (when my friends still had little bikes that is), and I'm guessing that quite a few people do. But, I also agree with you Dafe that riders of bigger bikes do need a bit of discernment in how they deal with smaller ones. But that shouldn't be the determining factor in how they (little bikes) ride. Gets back to the whole balance thing.

[mikey]

NO NO NO NO ON NO ON OPN NOO NON ON ONONONONONONONONNO

it is your own responsibility to look after yourself, not the guy going faster than you on a gsxr1000, he cannot make you go any faster or slower, you decide that.

there is no responsibility for them in "pressuring you to go faster", you pressure yourself not the other way around.

it is curteous if they wait at a turn off though.........

[Badcat]

NO NO NO NO ON NO ON OPN NOO NON ON ONONONONONONONONNO

it is your own responsibility to look after yourself, not the guy going faster than you on a gsxr1000, he cannot make you go any faster or slower, you decide that.

there is no responsibility for them in "pressuring you to go faster", you pressure yourself not the other way around.

it is curteous if they wait at a turn off though.........

hey mikey.
i reacted pretty badly to you last week, but am pretty humbled by this thread. I had you wrong.
sorry bud.

ken

[FROSTY:Me]

I agree with the above --I usually start rides at the front to set the tone of the ride (speed) then drop back to play tail end charlie.
My figuring is its better for me to have to be last in rather than a newbee.

[Dafe]

(Quote) from Ixion.
"I grant that most rides will have a "wait for people to catch up" break. But the psycological pressure to "keep up" is very strong. Nobody really wants to be the guy that everybody's always waiting for."
(Unquote)

Thank you Ixion for stating the obvious and I'm very suprised as it has taken quite a while for somebody to do so.

There is uneccessary pressure being put on the less experienced riders, Quote "Very Strong" pressure.

If I gun ahead with a group o 250's behind me, I know I'll be adding pressure to those behind, for some, this pressure will be stronger than for others.
Obviously if I remain with the group, I'm not asserting that pressure.
Therefore, I could be considered a factor in causing some of the less experienced riders to increase their risk taking and to accelerate their riding somewhat, perhaps even outside of their safety margins.
If I did this on a group ride and a 250 trying to keep pace crashed and died then I would feel like a real asshole!!! Because I basically put the gun in the babys mouth.
If this was Germany, it wouldn't work this way. Some nationalities have very responsible and mature young riders and roadusers. Unfortunately in New Zealand, we maintain the "She'll be right" attitude. Which is exactly why NZ'ers have the highest death rates on building sites amongst the developed countries. NZ still maintains the "She'll be right!" attitude, Also a reason behind why we pay such huge ACC levies and enormous insurance rates.