You can't. The best place to start would be raising the age for getting a bike license to 25.
Forum whore
You can't. The best place to start would be raising the age for getting a bike license to 25.
If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?
Rider in training
I can't agree with this blanket statement JD. Reducing the severity of an accident in many cases may be all that is required to save a persons life. And I'm sure that without the compulsory use of helmets a lot more people would be dead.Originally Posted by James Deuce
But even so, reducing the severity of survivable injuries is not a bad outcome. I think if you interviewed a whole of serious injured riders who weren't wearing much protection, and asked them if they wished they were wearing more ptotection you would get a very high percentage of them saying "yes".
I like the emphasis on Government. Government is so big with so many competing views it's hard to work out which bit is being talked about sometimes.
But I find it hard to believe your contention that the Police would be opposed to more driver/rider training. I'm sure there would be the "odd" Superintendent with this view, but I can't believe that the majority would share the view you have put forth.
Agreed. If you don't take responsibility for yourself then it is highly unlikely that the efforts of others will make much of a difference.
To be fair, track day training is generaly much safer because of its predictablity. I definately think it has its place in the overall training experience.
I think a raise in age would be in order. I'd prefer to see a smaller step to begin with though, say 17, to see the effect. "Radical" regulatory changes can be a bit scary.
Hardcore Biker
Best thing to do??
Teach them Tourists how to fucking drive!
I dont care if you are french, English, Samoan, Chinese, Russian, black, yellow, green, or white! You drive on the left side of the road and keep an eye out for EVERYTHING around you!
The only stupid question is a question not asked!
Forum whore
Incompetent tourists would probably be the smallest factor featuring in motorcycle accidents.
Why don't you look for the bigger picture?
The fact that you even bothered to mention it in the context of this thread marks you as someone positively born to be a motorcyclist.
(And no, that wasn't a compliment).
mini meeeeeee
There will always be deaths and serious injury on our roads, and all efforts should be made to minimise the risk of this happening.
Too many New Zealanders have a shocking attitude to being in charge of a vehicle, primarily that they are the only one who counts or exist once behind the wheel or in the riding seat.
We need to learn road courtesy and ensure we all stick to the rules which are there to protect us from ourselves and each other.
I do see the point which people make regarding the poor conditions that our roads can be in, yet with appropriate riding/driving modification even these should be manageable to navigate where necessary.
There will never be consensus amongst riders as to what is the best way to save ourselves because too many are convinced that you're either a "safety nazi" or a party pooper or tell you "hey, don't bother going out your door 'cos you might get hit by a bus", not to mention the old chestnut of "at least they died doing something they love" (a sentiment I struggle to fully understand).
I lahk to moove eet moove eet...
Katman to steveb64
Forum whore
Noob.
How long have people been driving and riding for? 200yrs?
How many govt run, supported, sponsored, sanctioned driving/riding skill courses are there?
0
And you think the govt don't share the view held by the Police?
All it needs is you to come down in the last shower and discover the real truth eh.
Jim, knows his shit!
Safety of participants is not an issue with road focussed training courses. We have never sent a participant off in an ambo in 12 years.
Forum whore
Cops doing U turns.
Tearing Choppa a new A'Hole
Ahhhh but that weeds out those who "can" and those who "think they can". Survival of the fittest and all that.....
Vote David Bain for MNZ president
Forum whore
But the laws need to be sensible, fair and reasonable, and sensibly enforced, or else it leads back to the lack of respect for and ignoring of.....At the end of the day you can have laws, but if there's no enforcement or respect for laws then that achieves diddly squat.
“- He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”
Forum whore
I've already provided the quote and source for that in a previous thread. I'm not doing it again. The previous Traffic Super said it and the current woman also said the same thing in a radio interview over the Christmas break. The Traffic Super's word is a reflection of Government and Police policy and they never counter it after a public statement to that effect from any Police or NZTA source. Andy Knackstedt was thrilled with the previous Super's stance and went on public record in an almost joyous fashion supporting the claim that advanced rider and driver training was inherently dangerous.
Send either organisation an email and ask them if they support advanced rider or driver training.
ATGATT will not save your life. I think shrub was alluding to interstitial fluid shift in the case of skin loss. It isn't a weak heart that kills you, it's the sudden destabilisation of your electrolytes as fluid rushes to the damaged areas that throws your heart out of sinus rhythm. It doesn't need a weak heart for you to die from it. A person as healthy as an Ox will die if major efforts to hydrate and balance electrolytes aren't carried out quick smart. Most of the deaths I've seen, the rider has been ATTGATT and they've died of internal injuries. Complications like ruptured spleen, detached heart muscle, or a deformed head requiring the helmet being cut off with a band saw. In one memorable accident I made the mistake of removing the helmet from an already dead rider. The nose pieces on his glasses had stripped the scalp off his head from eybrows to the top of his head as the helmet rotated up over his head. Big impact that one. I went and got contacts the next day. Leave a beautiful corpse and all that.
ATTGATT will lessen the impact of survivable injuries. Anyone who relies on the gear they are wearing to "save their life" is, quite frankly, an idiot. A helmet will probably protect you from an unnecessary death in a stationary or low speed tip over. Slide into a curb head first at 80 km/hr and the force of that impact will do more than hurt your head. Even with the helmet on, your brain still slams into your skull. If you've ever been rendered unconscious while wearing a helmet, I can guarantee you've had a significant head injury.
Track days are a false economy. The incorrect assumption that track days improve people's handling skills so there are less accidents is patently untrue when you consider that 40% of motorcycle fatalities are single vehicle cornering "accidents". The most important survival skill is situational awareness. Avoiding incidents before they become a problem and making that attitude second nature. You can't learn situational awareness on a race track that is relevant to road riding.
If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?
Forum whore
Do those that "can't", become Spannermen?
BogOff-Cant you see I'm busy?
New Zealand driving standards are some of the worst I have ever seen anywhere in the world. Yes there are some great drivers, but the general standard is very poor.
Are we suggesting that we train already better tourists how to drive as badly? I don't think so. Perhaps NZ should get rid of that silly left turn rule and also drive on the right and not the left side of the road?
I don't know the answer however when I have gone to countries where you drive on the others side I am certainly a great deal more cautious. If a tourist made a mistake and it cost lives, then that is very sad however I don't think we should over react.
The answer to the problem with motorcycle deaths is not as straightforward as we would like.
Firstly, we are all able to make mistakes which could potentially cost us our lives. As we get more experienced the number of mistakes we make reduces.
There is an element of personal choice which has nothing to do with experience and ability. If I choose to jump from 60 to 150kph in a 50 zone because the lights are green and road is clear; then that is my very bad choice. 9/10 I may get away with it, but the guy running the red light because nothing's coming may well result in my untimely death. The fact is that some of us will take unnecessary risks and this is down to our personalities and perhaps also how we are feeling at that moment in time.
From the other end of the scale, I see many motorcyclists who have no idea at all and IMO really should not be on the road. I know I keep repeating the same thing however IMO it is ridiculous that we allow noobs to learn how not to die on a 250cc motorcycle. It is wrong and there should be a higher level of competenace and standards to reach before being allowed to learn how not to die on the public highway. Maybe a 125cc limit would be a better starting threshold and a more thorough examination. Perhaps if more failed their tests and had to make more effort to pass then more would be better skilled to survive the initial learn how not to die period.
The problem I see is that big money is being invested in the Speed Kills slogan. This is not really helping improve road standrads which are pretty bad at any speed.
Last edited by YellowDog; 13th January 2010 at 13:31. Reason: sp
Forum whore
Which is why, track days are fun, but don't really do a lot for real world, road riding ability other than improved awareness of what your bike may be able to do. Learning how to ride properly, on the road and continually practicing until it all becomes automatic, does more for survival chances than a continuous diet of track days.
A lot of it is reverting to default, learned, driving settings in a moment of stress. It's happened to me overseas and it's a scary thing when you realise it. It's something that will never be eliminated unless all countries standardise their driving regulations.....
“- He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”
In the riders seat
I think most riders consider themselves better than they really are
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
Missing my buddy Morepower
That'll never happen. Although, detune every bike out there back to the olden days and you might get somewhere
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