Another fatality

[scumdog]

Thanks for the info

Intuitively, I think fluoro is more visible than a modulator would be, but over here where I ride, I have literally never seen anyone else ride with fluoro (I brought mine over from NZ on holiday, you cannot buy jackets here other than those made solely for road workers). Wearing a vomitious green vest with reflective strips on it is my way of improving the odds "they" will see me.

Would just like to add that my comments are absolutely NOT aimed at implying that if we're not seen it's our fault for being less visible.

I've mentioned this before but saw it again a couple of days ago : two people on a big tourer wearing flouro vests, trouble was, the windscreen etc at the front and the top-box at the rear meant the vests were almost unseen from front or rear, only side on did they really show up.

Would have been better if the rear guys vest was on the top-box and maybe the front had flouro across the fairing? I dunno, just my thoughts.
em

[Lou Girardin]

Why do people think that a vest will be seen when a headlight or brake/taillight isn't?
I suspect that vests etc. give a false sense of security. I'll think I'll continue wearing black and assuming I'm invisible.
There is an excellent article on a phenomenon called motion camouflage in the latest bike mag. Basically it says that if a moving object (us) is in a straight line between the observer (driver) and a fixed object behind, the object does not register with the observer because he's looking for movement. This technique is apparently used by dragonflies when stalking prey. (There's some trivia for you) It's only when the object is close enough to loom into view that it is seen. Which is why so many bike v car T bones strike between the A pillar and the front.
A counter-measure for this is to alter the angle of your approach (weave) and/or keep as far right in the lane as possible.

[Ixion]

Why do people think that a vest will be seen when a headlight or brake/taillight isn't?
I suspect that vests etc. give a false sense of security. I'll think I'll continue wearing black and assuming I'm invisible.
There is an excellent article on a phenomenon called motion camouflage in the latest bike mag. Basically it says that if a moving object (us) is in a straight line between the observer (driver) and a fixed object behind, the object does not register with the observer because he's looking for movement. This technique is apparently used by dragonflies when stalking prey. (There's some trivia for you) It's only when the object is close enough to loom into view that it is seen. Which is why so many bike v car T bones strike between the A pillar and the front.
A counter-measure for this is to alter the angle of your approach (weave) and/or keep as far right in the lane as possible.

I usually make a point of weaving slowly from right lane to middle lane when following a vehicle, or approaching one. Instinctively, I think the theory is correct , we spot an object moving relatively to us more easily than one (relatively) stationary to us.

I also do this because some older drivers only use the internal mirror and only "see" things central in it. In the right wheel track position you are at the edge of the internal mirror.

I think the vest is visible (a) because it is higher than headlamps - same as white helmets are more visible; (b) because lights are fairly common whereas fluoro isn't (yet). People notoce the "odd" , the different - "what the heck is that". Take note next time you spot a bikey cop - whats the first thing your mind registers. Bet it's the "odd" colour . Also, at night a bike headlight can easily "merge" into the light pattern of other traffic, the vest distinguishes the bike as a separte entity

I did a little totally unscientific test on this. From our house you can see the roads for quite a way around . I rode around a loop, which took me out of sight from the house, than back into view, first with no vest, then with one. Mrs Ixion watched from the deck and noted where she first spotted me (the timing was reasonably random) She consistently saw me earlier with the vest.

[Ixion]

I've mentioned this before but saw it again a couple of days ago : two people on a big tourer wearing flouro vests, trouble was, the windscreen etc at the front and the top-box at the rear meant the vests were almost unseen from front or rear, only side on did they really show up.

Would have been better if the rear guys vest was on the top-box and maybe the front had flouro across the fairing? I dunno, just my thoughts.
em

Better to be visible all round of course. But visible from the side is good, because it should help reduce the "pull out in front" problem. If someone is waiting in a side street and you are approaching them, they effectively see you from the side.

[MSTRS:Me]

Didn't want to say it, but....since it is our responsibility to overcompensate for the blindness & stupidity of other road users, perhaps we must adopt the use of fluoro everything on our bikes including a flag on top of a pole such as you see on the pedal bikes for hire.

[Ixion]

Didn't want to say it, but....since it is our responsibility to overcompensate for the blindness & stupidity of other road users, perhaps we must adopt the use of fluoro everything on our bikes including a flag on top of a pole such as you see on the pedal bikes for hire.

You do notice the flags, though but. I've actually thought about it, but I don't think they'd survive high speeds.

[MSTRS:Me]

You do notice the flags, though but. I've actually thought about it, but I don't think they'd survive high speeds.

Nobody here does that, do they?

[XP@]

RIP another rider
thoughts to his family and friends.

There's a bit of a pattern here...
the number of accidents caused by people crossing the centre line seems to be a few more than the ones where speed was a factor.
In that article (and the majority of the ones I have seen recently) 2 of the 3 someone was on the wrong side of the road. I dunno about the main one, but it is likely that it was similar circumstances...

so why aren't the cops & ltsa running a campaign to try and get roadusers to stick to their own side of the road, unless safe?
Maybe also informing people how to go round corners without swinging wide (delayed apexing works for cars too!).
They could also do with enforcing the tailgating rule (would be a great money spinner)

Until the car drivers learn make sure you use delayed apexes, cos I don't want to see your RIP here!

PS I learned the importance of delaying apexes and not following too close when a friend on a bike went in to a bend to early and I was following too close. he came out late and on the wrong side of the road, hit a car. as I was in the bend too my best route was over his legs. That will never happen again to me.

[Oakie]

Didn't want to say it, but....since it is our responsibility to overcompensate for the blindness & stupidity of other road users, perhaps we must adopt the use of fluoro everything on our bikes including a flag on top of a pole such as you see on the pedal bikes for hire.

If you want to be seen ... or positively avoided ..., try fitting a white fairing to your bike. Years ago when traffic cops on bikes were common, I stuck a white handlebar fairing with an upright windscreen on my Z400. It was AMAZING the amount of respect I got in front of me from other motorists because they thought I was a bike cop.

[Brian d marge]

Two VERY unfortunant accidents .... I am going to put this up and I would like people to think about it ...Especially the new riders ..

How the hell do you have a bike accident ??? There IS ALWAYS someone ( usually BOTH partys ) who are driving incorrectly

( dont give me that ,,,one about suddenly the bike ...I hit gravel ....what ever,,,,,,)

No joking here ...The bike police in England lose their jobs if they have an accident ( last time I checked)

That means if they are sitting at the lights and a car drives up their arse ...they still lose their job...because they are trained to drive pro actively ( defensive ) ....
Now DONT get this confused with bike handling ...it HAS NOTHING to do with that....its about READING the Traffic and acting accordingly ...

This near miss thing ( I had a near miss on the way to work this morning sort of thing ) we read about doesnt really happen anymore....BECAUSE you the rider are in such a position THROUGH reading the road/traffic conditions that you have ALREADY taken the required action .....

Example a car is indicating to turn right so you move to the left to carry on past the car on the inside when suddenly the car turns left .....

if you watch the driver and sit in a position so you can see the driver in their side mirror ( ie if you can see them they can see you ,,) you will 99 percent of the time see the driver turn their head ,,for a quick glance ,,,either in the mirror OR to see where they are intending to turn....
At this point you Start braking....99 % they WILL turn....but you have ALREADY stopped avoided the problem so it doesnt matter

Innattention ....NEVER NEVER follow BEHIND a vehicle always to one side ...so if you aint watching and the car suddenly stops ...u go sailing up the outside .......

Cars suddenly doing U turns ....if there is traffic comming towards you the car isnt going to do a U turn ( or it will crash ) ....but if there is a gap and ( the car is stuck in traffic ....) There is a VERY good chance it will do a U turn ....so U watch the drivers head AND get ready to brake AND SLOW DOWN......

IF anyone thinks that doing an advanced riding Defensive driving course ...is for big girly blouses.... I remember years ago that they did a shoot out between a clubmans racer ,,,a dispatch rider ...And a police rider from hendon ,,and a commuter .....

The police rider DEMOLISHED EVERYONE ,,,through road positioning and ROADCRAFT.......
HAving followed a few ,,,I can testify to that fact !!!

Its not fun to have a scary moment on a bike ...its even less fun to read about accidents ,,,,when the application of simple ROADCAFT would have prevented most if not all.

Stephen

Who learnt to ride a bike in 10 min ,,,and is STILL learning road craft ......

[Fart]

Everytime I read about these fatalities, I stop and think. Lets becareful out there guys.

I deliberately chose a colourful helmet and leathers so that cars can see me. Also, more careful these days when riding. Either my old age or way too many riders RIP reminding us that it is dangerous out there.

[XP@]

Didn't want to say it, but....since it is our responsibility to overcompensate for the blindness & stupidity of other road users, perhaps we must adopt the use of fluoro everything on our bikes including a flag on top of a pole such as you see on the pedal bikes for hire.

But don't rely on it, it is not some kind force field.
Sometimes your fluro is like a red flag to the bull.
First time i had mine out this year, a car cut be up so badly I was pushed over the white line on the RHS of the motorway, in a left hand bend, in the wet...

... would like to get hold of a yellow one with the word "POLICE" on the back (without going through the hasstle of getting a paycheck from them too

[MSTRS:Me]

I wasn't being serious, you know. I wear all black on a black bike. No matter what I might wear, I would always assume the cager has not seen me and ride accordingly. My safety is my responsibility.

[Kickaha]

I wasn't being serious, you know. I wear all black on a black bike. No matter what I might wear, I would always assume the cager has not seen me and ride accordingly. My safety is my responsibility.

I take the same approach,assume everyone is out to get you it's saved me more than once.

[Lou Girardin]

RIP another rider
thoughts to his family and friends.

There's a bit of a pattern here...
the number of accidents caused by people crossing the centre line seems to be a few more than the ones where speed was a factor.
In that article (and the majority of the ones I have seen recently) 2 of the 3 someone was on the wrong side of the road. I dunno about the main one, but it is likely that it was similar circumstances...

so why aren't the cops & ltsa running a campaign to try and get roadusers to stick to their own side of the road, unless safe?
Maybe also informing people how to go round corners without swinging wide (delayed apexing works for cars too!).
They could also do with enforcing the tailgating rule (would be a great money spinner)

Until the car drivers learn make sure you use delayed apexes, cos I don't want to see your RIP here!

PS I learned the importance of delaying apexes and not following too close when a friend on a bike went in to a bend to early and I was following too close. he came out late and on the wrong side of the road, hit a car. as I was in the bend too my best route was over his legs. That will never happen again to me.

It is firmly in the too hard basket. You need several cops and a twisty road with a safe stopping area, not that common. If they ever hit "failing to keep left" with the resources they put into speed enforcement the road toll would fall below 300. I've only ever heard of one blitz on corner cutters, that was on the Takaka Hill road.