False radar beams?

[grusomhat]

Meh, sounds like they are putting them up in places where a radar detector isn't of much use anyway.

[quickbuck]

I am becoming somewhat disillusioned with the whole training thing. ..................

I can see your points.... Well, can't in the quote, as I deleted them!
This provides good food for thought Ixion...

The "training" actually might be better if it was directed to a course on personal responsibility for actions.
Also, educating operators of motor-vehicles that they are in charge of a potentially lethal weapon....

Something along those lines.
Granted, it has to be much more than an afternoon around the local race track.
While there is some benefit in that, it is not actually the cup of tea that the majority need, or are ready for.

The "Training" that is given MUST be applicable and effective. Only then will it make a difference.
And a boring 8 hour lecture will not cut it either!

It is like the servicing of a chain on a bike.
You can go out and look at it for damage before every ride, but unless you actually adjust it to the correct tension, clean and lubricate it, it will wear out prematurely.
Looking at it does not much except tell you it is failing.

[Ixion]

So to paraphrase...speed causes you to do silly things that endanger you and others, and will often kill or maim you.

And to be perennial it is a constantly occuring problem.

But that has nothing to do with speed LIMITS. Usually, the line crossing culprit is way below the speed limit. None has ever argued that INAPPROPRIATE speed is dangerous. What is not valid is to attempt to extend that (as the Police invariably do) into a truism that "Speed in excess of the speed limit is ALWAYS dangerous, but is you stick to the speed limit you are ALWAYS safe". I would guarantee that 90% of the line crossing drivers, if tasked with their stupidity would retort "But I wasn't speeding".

And that is a large part of why they do it. They believe that so long as they don't break the speed limit they can safely go as fast as possible. Because that is the message that the Police and LTSA-as-was send them

The police have now made such a total balls up of attitudes toward speed, that "not breaking the speed limit " is a rebuttal to any stupidity. No matter how idiotic the behaviour, it is OK so long as you don't break the speed limit.

Whereas the safe driver will select a sensible and appropriate speed at all times. Safe and appropriate may sometimes be ABOVE the speed limit. But often, will be BELOW the speed limit.

[pritch]

So to paraphrase...speed causes you to do silly things that endanger you

I think you missed the point. Speed alone isn't necessarily a factor. Sheer stupidity is.

[Jantar]

So to paraphrase...speed causes you to do silly things that endanger you and others, and will often kill or maim you.

And to be perennial it is a constantly occuring problem.

I read it as being people do silly things among which is inappropriate speed. It is the person doing silly things that is the prime cause, not the speed.

[quickbuck]

The police have now made such a total balls up of attitudes toward speed, that "not breaking the speed limit " is a rebuttal to any stupidity. No matter how idiotic the behaviour, it is OK so long as you don't break the speed limit.

Whereas the safe driver will select a sensible and appropriate speed at all times. Safe and appropriate may sometimes be ABOVE the speed limit. But often, will be BELOW the speed limit.

So, back to the "Training" thing, I guess we are talking the need for a whole social attitude adjustment for anything to really change...... Nothing new there, we just have to work out how to do it....
I know Katman has tried, but his approach doesn't work on all......

Okay, for those that are sitting there thinking this is a bit of a hijack,
Weill I will get it back on track for you...

Putting up deterrent devices to slow traffic down will only teach drivers/ riders to look around for other things. this will distract them from the task at hand.

Scenario.... Driver of a sports car cruising along a perfectly straight stretch of road as a pace well within the capabilities of the car.. ie less than a third of it's top speed, but a little over the Open Road Speed limit.
His Valentine One goes nuts. Driver is just driving to the conditions and well within his capabilities, BUT as soon as the Valentine goes off his natural instinct is to touch the picks....

The thing is WHY? I mean, I know why it is instinct, BUT he was traveling along a road and the only thing he was doing was traveling slightly above the posted speed limit.
The thing is, he has just created a situation that is much more dangerous than traveling over the posted speed limit!
He has upset the flow of traffic.

Now imagine that there are a whole line of cars following said sports car....... Well, we wonder how accidents happen?

[dipshit]

Now imagine that there are a whole line of cars following said sports car....... Well, we wonder how accidents happen?

haha... look at the last half of this....
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/021...99.html?ref=em

[CookMySock]

I guess we are talking the need for a whole social attitude adjustment for anything to really change...... Nothing new there, we just have to work out how to do it....

That sort of thing can take fifteen years, and in the meanwhile, is otherwise tantamount to enforcing ones' lifestyle and opinions on others (not yours or mine.)

The anti drink-driving and anti-smoking people seem to be making some headway, and the "hitting kids" crusaders seem to be a little stuck at the moment, but perhaps in time the "don't be an arse on a motorbike" people might get somewhere? It might be 25 years instead of fifteen perhaps?

Steve

[pritch]

BUT as soon as the Valentine goes off his natural instinct is to touch the picks....

Not necessarily. My first reaction was to look around for the source of the radar signal...
Obviously (even to me) that wasn't a very good idea.
The lunge for the brakes therefore is the result of training rather than instinct?

[MSTRS:Me]

Not necessarily. My first reaction was to look around for the source of the radar signal...
Obviously (even to me) that wasn't a very good idea.
The lunge for the brakes therefore is the result of training rather than instinct?

Training = conditioning? Yep.
Now, if that training could only be to teach people how to read a road/corner and select an appropriate speed based on that training, I'd bet we'd see a lot less 'running wide on a corner' incidents.

[quickbuck]

The lunge for the brakes therefore is the result of training rather than instinct?

Well yes, not formal training, but more along the lines of:
You are going faster than the posted speed limit, so when a policeman sees you doing this, he will pull you over and give you an instant fine.
If this happens often enough (or you realise what the Policeman in the patrol cars job is), then the natural reaction will be to slow down every time you see a police car, whether you are going over the posted speed limit or not.
That is the bit that has been "Trained" into us. Well, me for one.

As you know a radar detector is a device that does the looking out for you, so it can be assumed that there is a police car in the area every time the thing goes off.

Now, note I never mentioned excessive speed....
I have also caught myself dabbing the brakes while traveling under the posted speed limit. It is a reaction that has been "trained" into me through the fear of getting a ticket.
Yes, I know this is NOT good, and is something I have to untrain myself to do........

I wish I could just "Ride the road in front of me" without the revenue limit existing....
The trouble is though, not everybody can make a sensible choice on what that speed should be for them...

Also it is speed differential that is dangerous, and not everybody's safe speed is the same..... In fact the posted speed limit is not safe for all situations.

[mulletman]

Is there also one on the motorway into Christchurch from the north? My detector always goes off at the same spot and I haven't seen a cop there yet.

It sits on a pole by the new waimak bridge facing north, same shape as plod uses, also one on pole where they pull trucks etc in just before waipara.

[dipshit]

This way would work better...
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oID=2017961664

[Hitcher]

Hit me
Hit me
Hit me with your radar beam.

[Swoop]

ACC spends money on training, it's getting the right people to do the training that's the challenge.

RRRS style training is what I would like to see as a common entry point for bikes and also a similar system for car drivers. Under our current system there is a lot of focus on theoretical topics, but insufficient practical based learning.
Knowing that "I should have done xyz when in a certain situation" means nothing when physically in charge of a motor vehicle.
We know the testing standards in NZ are crap. The test simply lets a person loose on the road, legally.

The "training" actually might be better if it was directed to a course on personal responsibility for actions.
Also, educating operators of motor-vehicles that they are in charge of a potentially lethal weapon....

Something along those lines.

The old "Defensive Driving" course used to do that. Sit through a day of lectures and watch a few videos. Absolutely no practical, hands-on training included. Hopefully they have attended to that now.

Now, if that training could only be to teach people how to read a road/corner and select an appropriate speed based on that training, I'd bet we'd see a lot less 'running wide on a corner' incidents.

Education? There's a concept!