Too much logic I'm afraid for it to be correct sir
Has left the building
Too much logic I'm afraid for it to be correct sir
Forum whore
No ? How about (just as a sample)Originally Posted by SS90
Ok you honestly don't think Bike Shop owners haven't thought of it have you? Have a think about it? If it was the solution and workable it would have been in practice by now. Also try and take a step further in your thinking/analysing/reasoning and what you'll see is one of the reasons why most Bike Shop owners open their shops during normal business hours are because of work life balance and to match their Kiwi lifestyles.
After 15 years in the industry, I have to say "screw you all who think we should be open on weekends at all"
Enthusiast? maybe......slave? hell fuck no!
You want to come in to the bike shop and talk about bikes and drink coffee, ok, cool.
when do we get such an opportunity?
People who work in bike shops need their free time too, and sure, I appreciate it is an enthusiasts market, and provisions must be made.
But please never forget that the people who work there are (by in large) enthusiasts too, and as such, we require " a weekend" as well.
Like I say 15 years in the industry, and I had to move to Europe to FINALLY get weekends off.
You don't enter into business with one mind set of making large amounts of profit. Businesses who operate primarily with profits in mind fail quickly and long term sustainable and successful businesses have widely been linked to other factors like having passion to service certain industries as opposed to profit margins. There are 100's of cases out there.
A lot of people enter into business not only to make profit but to suit and fit their lifestyles.
Third option . being the only shop interested in taking my moneyThe simple facts are, they operate on too smaller profits to enable this to happen.
The reason that the profits are too small, is simply because the turnover is low (due to NZ's small population)
simple.
There is only a small market from which to "take your share", so, if a bike shop want's to increase it's profits, it either has to cut the other dealers throats with pricing (dutch also now have to pay DUTY (because you are now a business) on all these units you got.
It is so easy to be a keyboard warrior and pick holes in the industry (and it's short comings), when you have no idea of what it entails just to get started, let alone turn a profit (even a small one)
You just don't get it, do you
I want to give business to local shops. I realise that NZ prices are usually going to be more expensive. We're a small country at the end of the world. I can accept paying a (reasonable) premium. There are unquantifiable advantages to buying locally
But - If you want my money, you have to be there to take it. I work , nominally , 9 to 6. Monday to Friday. I'm not the only one. Hundreds of thousands of people do. During those hours, I cannot go touring round bike shops. That leaves three hours on Saturday morning. Two hours really, otherwise I'll be one of those evil people waiting when the shop opens, or arriving half an hour before it closes. Could you possibly think of any way to make it MORE difficult for me to give you my business?
Almost everything I buy, who I buy it from is based (in order of importance) , on how convenient you make it for me to trade with you. Then quality. Then price. I'm looking for traders who score well on at least one of those, and no big downside on the other two.
So, you not only want to charge more (I can accept that), but also want me to jump through hoops to fit your "lifestyle". One hit, I can accept, Two tells me that you are not interested in my money. Others are.
OK, you don't care. You're in business not only to make profit but to suit and fit your lifestyle. Fair enough. But stop whining when you DON'T make a profit.
Royal Enfield user
My BSA bantam , serviced every weekend ( hey it was reliable ! )
My triumph 750 needed TLC almost as often sometimes an engine part was needed ,,,
My Enfield ,,,, ( I love spending money on my baby ) but the parts are cheap
point being I was ALWAYS in the bike shop , after work weekends , lunchtimes if I could sneak away but,,,,
My CBR 600 , oil water tires once a year or maybe twice a year ( assuming 12 000 miles a year )
once that started to happen the business model needed to change
A few years ago , 2 I think , mate was sending quite a few Harley's to NZ ( I assume for the weekend warrior had a bike when I was young brigade ,,,, read leisure item)
anyway work becons and Ive done nowt productive today ,,, not good
Stephen
"Look, Madame, where we live, look how we live ... look at the life we have...The Republic has forgotten us."
Forum whore
Well said that man!!!
I can hear where Ixion and others are coming from re opening hours and convenience etc. Maybe its nearly as simple as most NZ workers ( including those in the motorcycle industry ) still like their traditional kiwi weekend off, be it for racing / riding motorcycles, windsurfing etc.
And again I come back to there being a vacuum of skilled experienced staff. Its laughable to suggest part timers such as students and retired people to staff on weekends, notwithstanding that the kiwi work ethic is largely a thing of the past!!!
Joe motorcycle rider may frequent a motorcycle shop on a Sunday afternoon and still expect a ''correct'' and well informed answer that he would get from a highly experienced staffer midweek.
The industry will not prosper as long as it pays abysmal wages, nor can it pay better wages due to internet competition and dutch auction mentality. Inescapable fact....
Forum whore
Those two statements are contradictory. By and large, buying off the internet you get NO answers. Usually can't even ask questions.
So maybe what is happening is that what you are getting coming into the shop is only the people who CAN'T buy from the Internet. Either because they are illiterate, or because they have no idea what they want or need.
While the more clued up ones have said "Bugger buying locally, just too hard" and headed for the net.
The magic is in the rubbing.
I'm not in business, I am free to shop during the normal work hours but I did so love late night shopping. It had this whole romantic thing about it. twilight an' all.
It's not just motorcycle shops people want open when they are ready to shop, it's all shops/businesses. Society has got so caught up within itself it's kinda forgotten how to breath and relax. We have become a "want it now" society. Everyone deserves a break. The good old days when shops were shut in the weekend and families had ... family time.
Forum whore
No intention to be contradictory as such, I can see both sides of the argument and Im a consumer too.
Try e-mailing me sometime for suspension help..............................there are some of us who do put in the effort
Fully qualified Sifter.
Ixion...yo're so fucking full of yourself.
"So maybe what is happening is that what you are getting coming into the shop is only the people who CAN'T buy from the Internet. Either because they are illiterate, or because they have no idea what they want or need.
While the more clued up ones have said "Bugger buying locally, just too hard" and headed for the net. "
RAMbo
This thread is just going round in big circles.
I think the message has been made from the point of the consumer.
But to summarise from what I have read in the thread into one short conversation (and being biased towards the view of the consumer):
Consumer: I'm confused as to why the bike shop opening hours are mainly during normal working hours, when it is a retail industry. Other retail industries open both these hours and others (to suit the average consumer).
Bike shops: We are allowed a life like anyone else.
Consumer: No-one disagrees with that but still the question is why not open later and close later, plus possibly being open 9 to 5 on a saturday. Then you can have your mornings and sundays closed. Plus why does every member of a bike shop have to be experienced, why not use a mix of new and experienced staff to cover these periods.
Bike shops reply - then the customer would just get frustrated with new inexperienced staff.
Consumer - but surely the new staff will become experienced over time? Hence this will only be a short term problem and can be mitigated by mixing new and old staff (i.e. rosters).
Bike shops - Nope they won't stick around long enough because only people who really love bikes stay in this industry, due to the shit wages.
Consumer - The shit wages is probably linked to low sales which is probably linked to not being open during the preferred hours of the consumer.
In conclusion I don't think the two sides (of respondents to this thread) will agree on this. This is a real shame as it shows an industry that is slightly out of touch with its consumer, and lots of consumers are missing out on the opportunity to support and enjoy their local bike shops.
Fully qualified Sifter.
And here's an opinion of someone who's been both a consumer, and in the industry.
It's not a fucking supermarket or a dairy. Your life is often in your (our) hands when you ride a motorcycle. It's a highly specialized industry.
More often that not...the people in the industry are involved with...get a load of this...MOTORCYCLES!!!. We race motorcyles...when are races held???? On fucking WEEKENDS!!!
As said before...if we have students and such people to simply hold the fort...we in the industry would be shot down for hiring 'amateurs', and it could also lead to all sorts of safety related issues, let alone expense issues. The motorcycle industry in NZ is NOT big enough to support shops that try to become 24/7 superfuckingmarkets. Get it?
Ixion...you're obviously THE most intelligent motorcyclist ever born...get your head round that. Or...open up a shop...run it by your "I know what NZ bikers want" rules...make your millions cause you're so switched on, then buy a flight into space and fuck off once and for all. Because you snivelled like a pussy a while ago, left...and came back here with you tail between your legs. I bet because the local bowls club told you to fuck off too.
What is it you do for a living Les? And how much do you spend on motorcycle related costs every year? I'm willing to bet FUCK all. Yet you want to put the knife into the industry here. But I bet even before the age of the keyboard know all...you've NEVER been a spender.
In my day...motorcyclists stuck together. The local shop was the hangout place. You spent your hard earned there..they looked after you.
I'm sure I've seen post's by you and your like...that motorcyclists would always help one another..but you're not a motorcyclist. You're a typist. I'm glad that the average Kiwi motorcyclist doesn't think and act like you, cause then my job would actually suck. Like you do.
RAMbo
I just typed out a whole response trying to be polite and nice and to again say that I just didn't quite understand the push back to the question.
But you know what - fuck it - I'm done with this thread. It was started with good intentions but it has morphed into a very negative thread.
Forum whore
And this poster pretty much sums up the attitude of a big percentage of the NZ motorcycle trade. And provides a perfect explanation of why it's going to continue to go down the toilet.
15 years ago this shops with this sort of attitude could get away with it. Now they can't. Brace up , because the rides going to get rougher not smoother.
And an customer service ethos based around the principles that the man in the bike shop is a demi god, that customers are a pain in the neck, who will meekly put up with whatever abuse the demi god cares to throw out, is a good way to make it rougher still.
Forum whore
Ixion, while I see your points, and they are valid, I simply see your perceptions of the NZ motorcycle industry industry as somewhat jaded.
What you are not taking into account is the shit that the industry workers must deal with, the time wasters,the punters coming into the shop, trying on a pair of boots helmet etc, simply to find the correct size before ordering it online....this is an increasing phenominon now that "online shopping" has become so popular.
I don't want to whine and moan about specific examples, as that is not needed, but you have to understand it's not possible to provide a motorcycle service industry the way you describe.
I get the feeling that you would like a "more professional" industry........ that would be nice, however, professional employees are VERY expensive, and, by in large, professional employees have very little "heart and soul" when it comes to motorcycles.
This isn't realestate, nor is it insurance, (neither of which require real qualifications), where the rewards are high (financially), and, essentially "any monkey in a suit/dress" can make money, because, basically the customer needs the product you sell, and "being professional" simply pays.
The motorcycle industry is different, a good percentage of the customers (think) they know everything about their bike, and, most of the time simply want to come into a bike shop and talk about either how fast they are, how fast their bike is, or tell you that your tyres are too expensive.
Years ago when I was an apprentice, I was FORCED to work Saturdays, in the show room, and, if a bike did sell I was to head back out to the workshop and WOF & PDI it, and, many times, do a trade in inspection.
I can tell you I resent the loss of my weekends, but can also say that I learned valuable skills in the process......am I rich? am I fuck!
All that experience did lead to "high(ish) industry rate standards", but, compared to almost anything else, it's a joke.
Believe me Ixion, as far as the concept of "professionalism" goes, the NZ motorcycle industry is self regulating.
One thing professional sales people are taught is "to CONDITION buyers/customers to prices", that is, if a customer comes in and say's "oh, that's too expensive", it is a professional sales persons JOB to explain to the customer WHY the price is what it is, as well as "close the deal"...... but from my experience (plus what I read here), the average public simply respond by saying that "the bike shops are ripping us off", and go buy off the net.
I feel I have explained WHY parts/accessories are dearer in NZ retail outlets than "on line", but by in large, it would seem that many people "fail to be conditioned"
I assure you, if there was real demand for shops to be open 7 days, it would happen.
This has been tried, time and time again by various dealers NZ wide......it NEVER works, sweet FA people come in on a Sunday, let alone SPEND anything, so you have begrudged staff (roster or not, Sunday is Sunday), very little in sales, just to have to come back next week and do it all again.
It has been pointed out that Kiwi's have become accustomed to 7 day a week trading, and, yes, by in large, the majority of the sales people who work the weekend are students (selling Ipods etc)
How knowledgeable are these sales people? Everyone can sell an ipod, they are all the same price, user friendly, and most people want one. You just go to the nearest kid in the shop and pays ya money.
Selling motorcycle accessories is another story (again, let's leave bikes out of it), a customer has a budget, and they want that budget to get them the best helmet that it can, so, they first hunt for PRICE......when they find one they like in their price range, they try it on for size, and, to do this correctly, an experienced sales person is required (they cost money you know), then, having decided that this helmet is for them, the next words out of their mouth is "can you sharpen up the price, "or "can you do me a discount"
What?
Why the hell should a customer get a discount on buying a fucking helmet?
I don't get a discount down my local, even though I spend plenty of money there every month.
But, almost 100% of customers ask for a discount on any purchase from a bike shop over $20.
Margins are already tight, and the market is "over subscribed too" as far as retail outlets go, and, really, the price is actually the friggen minimum.
I have heard customers say "oh yea, so and so bike shop charges $25 for that same 1l oil pack, and you want $27.....your a friggin burglar....."
Profit in that 1L oilpack? 4$
How about next time you are getting fish and chips, you tell the guy that the chip shop next to your mates place only charges $2 for the same size piece of fish that he want's $2.20, see what his response is.......
I don't expect to change you mind about the industry Ixion, but I would like you to think of this....The NZ bike industry levels of professionalism are self regulating, it is the devils circle, the more and more people that buy off the net, the higher and higher the prices in the retail shops become (as turnover decreases, margins must increase to maintain the bottom line), then, the customers just complain more........ and the already begrudged staff members have to cope with increased work load (less co workers), and less likelyhood of pay raises.........and now you want him to work Sunday?
Royal Enfield user
And an customer service ethos based around the principles that the man in the bike shop is a demi god, that customers are a pain in the neck, who will meekly put up with whatever abuse the demi god cares to throw out, is a good way to make it rougher still.
Snip
Thats the feeling I get when I walk into SOME bike shops in NZ , ( except for the big Honda place just outside? Napier and the Suzuki place in Napier ( u guess it I was staying there when last back )
In CHCH , all in Manchester st ? ( or was that them young ladies who thought I was a demi god , oh i forget now ) but except Cycletreads I think they were nice
but when you walk in you just get the feeling ya not wanted,
To get off the subject , In the west we call it say a gut feeling , here they call it Haragei a sort of sixth sense , and it is a VERY REAL part of business both sides know it both sides understand it,, and it can be very difficult to deal with sometimes but shops work VERY HARD at creating this harmony
you want to see tight margins , come to Tokyo and watch your monthly rent kill and hope of a profit , then watch how aggressively shops try and get your custom then reread this thread .... bikes shops are a service industry if you cant , don't want to, unable to , Try another business , John B Mechanic , may be an ace with the spanners ,,, but dealing with a dropkick on a Sunday morning maybe another story ,,,
Stephen
Stephen
carry on ,,,
"Look, Madame, where we live, look how we live ... look at the life we have...The Republic has forgotten us."
Easy Biker
That's what I mentioned the Friday night hang-out. Life has changed and it doesn't happen any more.
On another note, swearing at us (or was that just for Ixion?) in your post isn't a great way to improve the look of your business.
Also I think it was Brian d'M said above how the reliability of bikes has changed. Same as cars we don't need stuff all the time for them now, so if a shop wants our money, they have to tempt us with things to spend our money on and when we are available to spend our money. Me and Mrs are definitely impulsive buyers, if you aren't open when the impulse is alive we move onto the next thing to buy. I mentioned buying her new car on a Sunday - easy as that. Honda Cars know what to do to get our business, so why not the bike business?
Cheers
Merv
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks