Can anyone tell me why bike shops only open for half a day on Sunday?

[SS90]

Perhaps they are happy. But self evidently they aren't enough to keep the industry flourishing.

Bottom line (where it all counts) is that by the trade's own statements, the motorcycle trade in NZ is in trouble (or else bike shop owners just like bleating).

The present model isn't working. The trade can simply sit back and continue to complain that riders are stupid , inconsiderate, interfere with shop owners' lifestyles, and should be forbidden to buy from the net. While the bike shops shut their doors.

Would it personally inconvenience me if every bike shop in NZ closed? Not much. My needs are simple, and apart from tyres can readily be met from non-bike-shop sources or the net. So , personally, I don't really care. If the trade is committed to its present death spiral , so be it.

But, it would be a pity in a more general sense. And oblivion is not inescapable. Pretty much every business is exposed to competition from the internet. Most deal with it, by a sales model that provides better VALUE even though PRICE may be higher. Price and value are not the same. I gave an example of a business which is coping with internet competition successfully (very successfully if the big new Mercedes parked outside is any measure) .

Of course a sales approached based on complimenting bikers' on their pretty dresses won't generally work. Except maybe for some Honda riders But it's bullshit to imagine that bikers are hard headed Scotsmen who can't be flim flammed. It's just a different flim flam. Helmets double the price because "it's the same colours as Rossi's". Toothpaste suits with race humps (like they're necessary on the public road). Not to mention the whole "wall of chrome" thing. "What a pretty dress" = "Nice bike , mate- bet it goes like stink" . It's up to the bike shop owners to actually SELL - to find the sales approach that does work with bikers, and makes them happy to pay more at the bike shop than the internet. Because they perceive they receive better value.

It doesn't matter whether the cusomer is manipulated or not, if the customer is happy with the transaction. "Sales manipulation" is what a salesman's job is all about. If he can't or won't do that, then he should be in another job.

Sell, or sink. The choice is up to each individual shop owner. But I can say with certainlty that bleating about how stupid customers are , and how unfair the internet is, is not the answer to business survival. The internet is here to stay. And the demographic of bikers has changed. Some of them nowadays maybe even wash their scarves. Accept that reality and work within it , or go broke. The choice is yours (generic yours, not you). But if you choose to ignore reality, don't bleat about it.

You are quite right on a number of points, and I concede that the industry must keep pace with the changing market, but please don't forget that the "bread and butter" motorcyclists are not like yourself.

If "Born agains" "Newbies", or what ever title you want to give them, want to be part of the "scene", then they have to realise that if the industry changed to suit their specific needs, then the "old boys" will be disgruntled and no longer support that shop.

It's happened before you know.

It needs a little compromise from the retailers, and "both" types of customers.

Customers need to feel comfortable when they shop.

Making a Lawyer comfortable is totally different to making a plumber comfortable (and both are customers of equal value).

And 99% of the time, the Lawyer is a "one time purchase" (Maybe a big American custom to impress his mates, and some chrome and riding gear), and the Plumber is on his 12th bike (smaller margin for the dealer, but larger "turn over", and does not want his arse kissed by some "false compliments", to entice him to buy a $100 scarf.

If the New born professional biker want's to be part of the scene, then he/she needs to "harden up", it's born to be wild" they want, not "Born to be mild"

[Brian d marge]

you run the meeting..I am quite happy in the carpark

but from the trail rides I have done , I could have sold a whole lot of generic parts , such as universal clutch perches , 2 stroke oils , inner tubes ...tyres ( I could have sold my right nut for any form of black round rubbery thing on an Enguro I was on once

and it beats sitting in front of this computer in the middle of tokyo ANY DAY

Stephen

mind u the project I am on is interesting .. but this bottle of scotch has a blasted hole in it .......

[Scorp]

If it worked, it would happen.

The market dictates opening hours.

The end.

I agree completely. Please forgive a noob for venturing a suggestion.

Although there's still: ANZA Motocycles in Palmerston

Sausage sizzle

We are open 7 days - we don't know of any other motorcycle shop in New Zealand that is. On Sundays our showroom becomes a real melting pot of motorcyclists out for a ride. Groups of 2, 3 or 30 arrive from all over and enjoy hot coffee, muffins and catching up with each other. Remember if you have a group of 15 or more out for a ride, any day of the week, just give us a ring beforehand and we can organise a sausage sizzle for you.

Best wishes and ride safely!

Kerry, Grace and the Anza team

[SS90]

I agree completely. Please forgive a noob for venturing a suggestion.

Although there's still: ANZA Motocycles in Palmerston

Yes, but erm, even from there "blurb", they suggest that it is simply a meeting place for riders to come on a Sunday, and they also sell cars........

Like you say, I am pretty certain they are the last ones left doing it.

[Ixion]

You are quite right on a number of points, and I concede that the industry must keep pace with the changing market, but please don't forget that the "bread and butter" motorcyclists are not like yourself.

If "Born agains" "Newbies", or what ever title you want to give them, want to be part of the "scene", then they have to realise that if the industry changed to suit their specific needs, then the "old boys" will be disgruntled and no longer support that shop.

It's happened before you know.

It needs a little compromise from the retailers, and "both" types of customers.

Customers need to feel comfortable when they shop.

Making a Lawyer comfortable is totally different to making a plumber comfortable (and both are customers of equal value).

And 99% of the time, the Lawyer is a "one time purchase" (Maybe a big American custom to impress his mates, and some chrome and riding gear), and the Plumber is on his 12th bike (smaller margin for the dealer, but larger "turn over", and does not want his arse kissed by some "false compliments", to entice him to buy a $100 scarf.

If the New born professional biker want's to be part of the scene, then he/she needs to "harden up", it's born to be wild" they want, not "Born to be mild"

Well, I'm an 'old boy' on way more than my 12th bike, and I can't see why making the bike trade attractive to people who have money and are willing to spend it would necessarily make it less attractive to me.

Sure, neither the lawyer nor the plumber (toss-up which would ride the HD) may be interested in a $100 scarf (though if the plumber just bought a retro helmet ???). But a modern bike shop is likely to have female riders as customers. If it hasn't then there's something wrong to start with . And they are as likely as any other chick to be interested in pretty things. They're not all butch dykes, y'know.

And if the HD rider isn't into scarves, he MAY be willing to pay good money for a chrome doo-rag pin with a flashing blue LED in the middle (garrggh - it probably would sell, too).

And the plumber isn't into pins, or scarves, but he may be VERY interested in the new rainsuits you have in. Which definately DO NOT leak at the crotch. Especially if he trusts you enough to take your word for it that they don't (does he?). He didn't come in looking for a rainsuit (already got two): but one that doesn't leak , even if he doesn't have budget for it today , he'll be back to buy. If you sell it properly (yep, "manipulate the customer"). Don't forget to mention that the sizing is odd, in case he does go looking on the internet.

Oh, and now the rain suit is sorted, is a good time to pull out the brochures of the range of long storm coats . Can't get them ANYWHERE. You don't stock them (not a lot of demand) but you can get in a sample for him to look at if he's interested in. He will be.

Now , in all of this (a) neither the lawyer nor the plumber came in looking for these things (b) they are stuff that they will be VERY interested in (c) the price is NOT going to be the primary driver - you won't be up against "I can get it for less on the net".

Of course, these are just examples. Suggestions . So , please, don't focus on shooting down the idea that HD riders are keen on doo-rag pins. Make it whatever HD riders DO go gah-gah over - I don't ride one so I don't know

The difference between a good salesman and an order taker is that the former can read the customer, and knows what (profitable) merchandise to suggest to him. And can win the customer's trust so that he believes you (hypothetical you) when you tell him it doesn't leak.

OH, BTW , the plumber came in for a new chain. Which you've sold him. Not so much profit on chains nowadays, cos of internet competition. But, you've also sold him a can of the new brand of chain lube you have. Specially developed for riders who do a lot of wet weather riding. Lots of profit on that item, and the customer will pay it, because he perceives a value add (for him - cos he rides in the rain) .

He hesitates ? It *is* pricey - offer him a money back if he's not satisifed deal. Research shows that , so long as you've read your customer right, such an offer is a very safe one (assuming your product IS good quality - if it isn't don't waste your time, you'll never compete with the internet for selling crap) .

So, lets see. You've now sold your "12th bike" customer a chain, chain lube ($$), a rain suit ($$$) and he'll be back for that storm coat ($$$$$). Yep, he's been well manipulated. And, y'know what? He'll go out of your shop a very satisfied customer, and tell everyone what a good shop yours is. Genuine old fashioned service and value.

Always assuming that you are actually open when he goes looking for that chain, of course.

(You can construct similar scenarios for the HD rider, I don't understand them well enough. And for that chick who likes pretty things)

[Crasherfromwayback]

This thread has been done to death!

[merv]

This thread has been done to death!

.. but hey I got my first WMCC mail out email today.

Also I think I am with Ixion on this, if the shops don't want to take our money the way we want to give it as customer we don't mind, we just spend it on other things. So if this thread has been done to death and the shops have not bothered taking anything from the comments made, then at ease, back to the internet.

[Crasherfromwayback]

.. but hey I got my first WMCC mail out email today.

Also I think I am with Ixion on this, if the shops don't want to take our money the way we want to give it as customer we don't mind, we just spend it on other things. So if this thread has been done to death and the shops have not bothered taking anything from the comments made, then at ease, back to the internet.

Great stuff!

Merv...you can be with Ixion on this one. Don't think the whole Sunday thing hasn't been discussed in GREAT detail here at WMCC, and I'm sure in most shops. But we don't think we can make it work. Hence my thinking the thread has been done to death. Everyone is going round in circles. As I've said...all of my customers can get hold of me 24/7, my home number is on my business card. Best I can do.

[Quasievil]

This thread has been done to death!

Fuck yeah, we been open the entire time to !!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Fuck yeah, we been open the entire time to !!

Think I've sold 8 bikes. Who said men can't multi task!

[R-Soul]

i agree, it makes it really hard to go round all the dealers in 1 weekend. no im not going to take time off work to spend my money in their store.


hire weekend only staff



hire weekend only staff




hire weekend only staff



this is a vaild point, however if i cant get to the damn store, where dose that leave me? the internet. Why can't the shops figure out a way to compete with the internet (i.e., open longer hours, easy to get to, knowledgeable staff, good mechanics, good supply of accessories)



Agree with you 100%



not sure if you're talking about bike shops here or supermarkets? The issue here is the time in the weekend (retails prime time) that they are open for.



thats a great alterative / idea about later weekday nights - it'd be much easier for me to get to a shop after 7pm than to somehow get time off during the day.



Couldn't. Agree. More.

What he said!!!

The bike shops are one, and the banks are another... God forbid that they open on weekends when their clients can get to them. Or stock huge numbers of tellers over lunchtime when EVERYONE goes there on weekdays.

[R-Soul]

Make it whatever HD riders DO go gah-gah over - I don't ride one so I don't know

What? Are bike shops into gay porn now?

I think what Ixion is saying is that bike shops ONLY point of (positive) differentiation is the personal touch. The personal relationship. You can use it to upsell.

The customer may not buy first time. He may be a tyre kicker for a few visits. But after a personal relationship has been established, and he feels welcome and like "one of the boys" he wont go elsewhere. Loyalty and friendship is worth a lot.

But if you dont make yourself available to establish the relatinship, or have a bad attitude towards his tyre kicking, then you lose your only real point of difference to internet sales.

[R-Soul]

Making a Lawyer comfortable is totally different to making a plumber comfortable (and both are customers of equal value).

To my mind, a plumber has even less time to screw around in a bike shop during the day when each hour not worked is an hour not earning. At least some lawyers work on salary. And salaried lawyers are less likely to be clock watched.

Have you ever tried ASKING the "old boys" what time would suit them?

And 99% of the time, the Lawyer is a "one time purchase" (Maybe a big American custom to impress his mates, and some chrome and riding gear), and the Plumber is on his 12th bike (smaller margin for the dealer, but larger "turn over", and does not want his arse kissed by some "false compliments", to entice him to buy a $100 scarf.

I would have thought that the ego driven lawyer would demand the latest models more often? Perhaps tehy jsut dont come back to YOUR shop for the second to the 12th bike...

If the New born professional biker want's to be part of the scene, then he/she needs to "harden up", it's born to be wild" they want, not "Born to be mild"

Keep making all the excuses you like. Motorbikes are for everyone now - from commuters to Hells Angels, chicks to kids, road bikes to MX, all ages all sizes, all attitudes. Some of them have no intention of buying into the poser HD lifestyle. some ofthem are in it, and want to be out.

You need to be there for all of them. Forging the relationships.

[325rocket]

It needs a little compromise from the retailers, and "both" types of customers.



If the New born professional biker want's to be part of the scene, then he/she needs to "harden up", it's born to be wild" they want, not "Born to be mild"

Not necessarily, i do 99% of my buying online and i dont think im missing out on anything. i only buy from bike shops when i know exactly what i want so i can go in get it and walk out.

thats not a dig at the local shops, its just a fact. i dont feel compelled to buy from bike shops.
i am starting to build a bit of a relationship with Richards in Johnsonville though. i like their old school approach and he always gives me more information then i need. good value.

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Right - bugger it - I know I said I am done with this thread but the point I have just posted on another thread also comes into play.

To quote myself:
But, the whole premise of prices in NZ is a bit eschewed.

In simple business terms:
Wholesalers should theoretically be able to purchase items for the cost of the manufacturers price (which is the manufacturers cost plus a premium).
Retailers should theoretically be able to purchase items at the wholesalers price (which is the wholesalers cost plus a premium).
Consumers purchase at the retailers price (which is retailers cost plus a premium).

What we see time and time again is consumers being able to purchase, by importing, the EXACT same items for far less than the the local retail price.

This would allude to the retail/ wholesale margins being too high or just sloppy wholesale importing by wholesalers. But, if it was the later, the consumer generally doesn't see the flip side (reduced local cost versus import cost) where the wholesaler has imported at a favorable (versus present) exchange rate.

It's all a bunch of bull when it gets down to it. Something is amiss if the consumer can CONSISTENTLY import at a lower cost than the local retailer.

NZ exporters (which are mainly dairy) moan to fuck when the exchange rate goes against them and put up the price of butter/ milk etc in the local market to cover costs (as if it is somehow subsidising local prices, which is also bull but that is a side issue). But you never hear a word when a beneficial exchange rate movement goes in their favour.

Switch the positive and negatives around and you have wholesale importers.

What is truly happening is that NZ consumers are becoming savvy to the rort of wholesalers charging when they lose out but not discounting when they make gains. This is the true reason of why you are seeing more and more of the consumers bypassing both the local retailers/ wholesalers and sourcing direct either from the manufacturers or off-shore retailers.

For me the whole NZ retail/ wholesale model needs an overhaul or it will just fade away. I started another thread on trading hours and was quite simply amazed at the push back of industry people who (in my mind) are unable to grasp the concept of modern business practices.

End quote.


For this thread:

I have read the responses since my last post and have seen the continual push back from the bike industry people to them.

Here is a big heads up to the industry people - no-one is expecting rhyme and reason for your current business practices on a forum, your modern consumer types are openly questioning your historic business practices. if you truly believe that the (modern) consumer is not in line with your preferred business practice then you are leaving the door open to consumer imports and any future savvy new business start ups.

I got fed up before by crasher's response to Ixion's suggestions which I saw as an irrational response to constructive criticism. If the retail bike industry cannot handle constructive criticism then it is really FUCKED (for want of a better word).