An Unpopular Thought/Suggestion

[Ixion]

I actually think too small a bike is dangerous for a learner. Firstly because the power band will inevitably be nasty as the designers try to wring performance from it. Secondly because I find on a large bike you are more likely to be willing to slow down more , because you know that you can get back up to speed easily. On a small (< 150 ) bike momentum is so precious that one tends to be reluctant to brake, knowing that doing so will mean a long tedious buzzing slog up through the gears.

And the reality is that when beginners are restricted for several years (as young ones are), they WILL want to ride their bike on the open road. And a bike that can't easily handle 100kph is going to be problematic and dangerous.

I think that probably best bikes of all for learners would be something like a 400cc cruiser. Low CoG, not too heavy, forgiving handling, gentle power curve, and enough power without too much. Yes, a bit big in the first month or so, but it will see out the restricted period without inviting undue risktaking.

It also means that the next "jump" is not so enormous.

[Ixion]

.. Putting aside the fact that to suddenly reduce the limit in NZ to 125cc would be bonkers, the merits of getting the basics right far outweigh the need to go just that little bit faster on a 250cc IMHO.

But an RG125 is faster than a GN250, but a lot harder to ride and less forgiving of mistakes

If you are going to restrict I think the only way is an approved list. Neither cc restriction nor power to weight nor hp restriction works - there are always loopholes.

Bear in mind also that a lot of the background thinking in such restrictions has nothing whatsoever to do with keeping people safe. It is bureaucrats trying to make motorcycling as unattractive as posisble, in the hope of eventually getting it banned.

Can anyone explain to me, otherwise, the logic behind the curfew restrictions (10pm to 5am I think) on a restricted licence.

It can't be to keep inexperienced riders off the road at night, because most of the year there is more night from sunset to 10pm and 5am to sunrise than there is in the curfew period.

And the small hours of the morning is actually a very safe time, little traffic and what there is mostly knows what it is doing.

In reality, it was just a eye poke by the bureaucrats. Dreary tired grey old plonkers all of them , they knew that most riders would be young . They knew that young folk want a social life. And so they decided to make sure that they crippled said social life . Partly I guess out of envy and partly just in the hope that a sufficient number of potential riders will say "nah too much bother". Meh, I hate old people.

(And please don't talk about stopping riders riding home after a party , drunk. It's OK to ride home drunk a 21:59 , but not at 22:011 ? )

[Wolf]

I think that probably best bikes of all for learners would be something like a 400cc cruiser. Low CoG, not too heavy, forgiving handling, gentle power curve, and enough power without too much. Yes, a bit big in the first month or so, but it will see out the restricted period without inviting undue risktaking.

It also means that the next "jump" is not so enormous.

I'm with Ixion, on this. My experiences in my early days with the RX125 and other small "learner" bikes leads me to believe that they're too dangerous, especially when encountering a gravel road - the narrow tyres, light frame etc meant that the gravel dictatted where you went on the road. You'd hit a drift and it would force the bike to go all over the show.

I used to crawl along gravel roads, especially around the corners as the cagers had piled up drifts that used to do nasty things to my steering.

My LS400 with its low CoG, heavier mass and substantial tyres tends to make its own track in gravel - it goes where you point it.

I've bitched previously about my premise that brakes on small bikes are an afterthought and the ridiculously small footprint of those "razorblade" tyres that conspire to make braking a terrifying prospect. The alacrity with which those narrow tyres break to the side is a horror.

I feel much safer on a substantial, properly set up, bike than on those tiny bikes. Riding the R100 at 128km/h then braking for a set of lights was not scary - I felt totally safe and in control of the machine. I have felt less secure quite frequently on supposedly "safe" learner bikes.

[Biff]

But an RG125 is faster than a GN250, but a lot harder to ride and less forgiving of mistakes

You're right Ixion, I'm dwelling on the 125cc a bit to much. I believe the engines in the UK are restricted to 14-15bhp. I'm sure Bob clarified this - I'll have a look now.

Most learners in the UK ride off roaders, either replicas or the real thing. Few ride race replicas as I guess you look a bit daft riding a 125cc race replica with an engine no more powerful than Ms Biffs hairdryer!

These off roader type of bikes are brilliant bikes to learn on IMO. Wide bars, upright sitting positions, nice n high & forgiving. I learnt on a KMX 125 - brillaint machine. Plus you don't end up kissing the ground if you hit gravel or fancy a bit of nature spotting.

[Pixie]

In NSW they have learner approved bikes ,which include some low output 650cc machines.

[Stevo]

You're right Ixion, I'm dwelling on the 125cc a bit to much. I believe the engines in the UK are restricted to 14-15bhp. I'm sure Bob clarified this - I'll have a look now.

Most learners in the UK ride off roaders, either replicas or the real thing. Few ride race replicas as I guess you look a bit daft riding a 125cc race replica with an engine no more powerful than Ms Biffs hairdryer!

These off roader type of bikes are brilliant bikes to learn on IMO. Wide bars, upright sitting positions, nice n high & forgiving. I learnt on a KMX 125 - brillaint machine. Plus you don't end up kissing the ground if you hit gravel or fancy a bit of nature spotting.

In racing circles the 4 stroke 250s race these 150 two smokers do they not? I fail to see where the current law is failing apart from I think the basic skills test was not a test of my ability but a waste of my time, AND again I waffle on about the absurd (IMHO) 70kph restriction. It should GO!!!!!!!!!!

[Bob]

Most learners in the UK ride off roaders, either replicas or the real thing. Few ride race replicas as I guess you look a bit daft riding a 125cc race replica with an engine no more powerful than Ms Biffs hairdryer!

Actually, you'd be surprised at the range of stuff learners ride here. Most schools opt for either the Honda CG125 or the Yamaha SR125 - and you see a lot of those on the road.

You're partly right on the baby trailbike/offroader thing though - I see quite a few on the commuter run, as they're ideal for battling through very heavy traffic.

Mind you, most days I spot a 125cc Suzuki Marauder (ridden by the smallest rider I've ever seen) a Mito and a Sachs! Now I reckon that is a good 125 to ride, it has real presence and looks like a much larger bike.

On the racerep angle... well you don't see many pukka race reps... but the second highest selling bike in 2004? Honda's CBR125R. Looks the part, even if it doesn't actually have race performance.