All this Newbie BULLSHIT!!!

[Ixion]

You know what the heck pees me off about this whole episode? No well I am going to tell you if you like it or not! It wasnt just new riders that got into trouble.

We had an experienced rider (Sorry SawnMan) but for frigs sake. We all make mistakes and we have one experienced rider who crashed on the same day.

Do we see the same hype and crap going on about his bin? HELL NO cos we have to trash the new riders. WTF...please someone give me a reasonable reason as to why (I say reasonable)! I dont give a toss who led the ride or who did what. We ride bikes and we have a license.

Well, I'll try for an explanation.

An experienced rider knows his limits and his bike's.

If HE crashes, it's either Act of God, or because he, knowingly, decided to push outside his limits. As several posters have said , for those riders "you are responsible for riding within your limits. If you push outside them and crash, on your head be it". So if an experienced rider crashes his fellows shake their heads, point jeering fingers (provided it's not tragic) and say "f**ked up, didn't you"

But it's different when a new rider crashes. He doesn't crash because he knowingly and voluntarily decided to push outside the limit of his skills.

He doesn't know what those limits are. He doesn't know how to recover if it all goes lavender. His crash is the result of inexperience and lack of road craft.

The experienced rider makes a call that he knows may end up him crashing . The novice has absolutely no intention of crashing. I don't for a moment believe that in any of those novice crashes, the rider envisaged it turning out as it did.

So the more experienced riders feel a responsibility to help and guide the beginners (they feel no such responsibility toward their experienced collegues - they should be able to look out for themselves) . They feel bad because if one crashes they feel that their guidance has failed. Hence the anger directed at some of the experienced guys .

I don't think anyone has trashed the novices (those who crashed or those who did not). People are alarmed and upset that young riders have been placed in a situation where their lack of experience could easily have killed them (especially with the recent tragedy so fresh in mind)

They point out (perhaps harshly, but these are bikers not Sunday School teachers) that the behaviour that led to the crash was stupid .

Where anyone has gone beyond that to actually bag the person involved, I think in every case they have apologised.

This is a community. Like all communities there is a collegiate acceptance of responsibility to look out for the vulnerable. That the new riders had licences is quite irrelevant, that is only of interest to the police. Presumably they didn't have full licences ? So their licence class itself indicates that they are inexperienced and deserve assistance guidance and protection. That's what the community is about. If anyone feels that is somehow demeaning (I can't see why because everyone starts some time, and I know personally that I am always keen for advice from more experienced or skilled riders), then they don't have to belong to the community.

I hope this helps.

[MadDuck]

hmmmmmmmmm Swanny knew what he was doing. OK..... Yes we saw evidence of that a dead R1...I wish I had that talent. I am sure he wont mind me saying that cos he has a sense of humour

The lesson is it dosent matter how experienced you are. There will always be mistakes made. So why isolate a particular group. I am backing you up here JSG go with it

[justsomeguy]

hmmmmmmmmm Swanny knew what he was doing. OK..... Yes we saw evidence of that a dead R1...I wish I had that talent. I am sure he wont mind me saying that cos he has a sense of humour

The lesson is it dosent matter how experienced you are. There will always be mistakes made. So why isolate a particular group. I am backing you up here JSG go with it

Thanks Madduck.

I think Ixion just said very articulately what I was trying to.

[justsomeguy]

Well, I'll try for an explanation.........I hope this helps.

Post number 888 for you.....

[MadDuck]

Ixion do you sleep ? like at all ?

[Ixion]

Ixion do you sleep ? like at all ?

Of course. What do you imagine I do all day at work (waking up at intervals to check KB of course)

[Pixie]

Well, I'll try for an explanation.

An experienced rider knows his limits and his bike's.
He doesn't know what those limits are. He doesn't know how to recover if it all goes lavender. His crash is the result of inexperience and lack of road craft.
.

I agree ,the hard part is discovering what those limits are.
Sometimes it hurts.
And ,generally one needs to findout for oneself what the limits are,because there is often a lot of wrong/mis information.

[James Deuce]

Really good post Ixion, and this is definitely my intention when I pipe up.

However, I think the general gist is that we are supposed to shut up and let them make their mistakes.

[Skyryder]

I agree ,the hard part is discovering what those limits are.
Sometimes it hurts.
And ,generally one needs to findout for oneself what the limits are,because there is often a lot of wrong/mis information.

The limits might be difficult to define but we all know when it has been crossed. Then it is down to luck because if shit happens there's no way you're going to flush it away.


Skyryder

[Wenier]

2. At age 15 brain development has not yet finished. The most common cause of angry parent/teen exchanges is because the areas of the brain that control perceptions of facial expressions and impulse control lag behind other parts. Late adolesence is characterised by mistakes such as confusing surprise with fear, concern with anger. Concious impulse control, e.g. I'm not going to wang through this corner as hard as I can because so and so does, isn't fully in the average male's grasp until 23-25.

I think your wrong there as i reckon its not the age but the person themselves. I am 19 and have realised that i cant jus go wang through corners, infact i learnt that a while ago. I also realised that a 600 is plenty for the road not like when i was 17 and thought fuck anything but 1000cc. i mean shit 1000cc is only .01secs faster to 100kph usually than a 600cc. Now if i realised that at 17 it should point to the fact that its the person and HOW they think not the age that makes them do stupid things like cornering too fast or passing with not enough time.

Jus my opinion.

[James Deuce]

I think your wrong there as i reckon its not the age but the person themselves. I am 19 and have realised that i cant jus go wang through corners, infact i learnt that a while ago. I also realised that a 600 is plenty for the road not like when i was 17 and thought fuck anything but 1000cc. i mean shit 1000cc is only .01secs faster to 100kph usually than a 600cc. Now if i realised that at 17 it should point to the fact that its the person and HOW they think not the age that makes them do stupid things like cornering too fast or passing with not enough time.

Jus my opinion.

Biologically your brain (remember this is a generalisation, but the reality is that there are very few people that develop physically earlier or later on the bell curve) hasn't finished developing. You can go look up any recent neuro sciences textbook or web page you want.

It has nothing to do with reasoning or intelligence or perceived maturity. Very few people avoid having pointless teenage spats with their parents that cause lasting issues for ongoing relationships on a parent child basis. This is part of the biological process of separating from your parental units. The things I am saying were divined by people with much bigger brains than mine. Robert Winston is but one populist mouthpiece for these theories, though he is a seriously academically equipped Human Development specialist. You should probably take it up with him.

[sedge]

If you are on a ride with new riders assign a sweeper. Their job is to sacrifice any over exuberant riding and hang back to let the (perhaps) less comfortable riders know that they don't have to keep up with the pack and no-one will feel bad coz they are keeping mr slow company.

It's pack mentality...

The trick is knowing just how far to hang back, you don't want to damp the fun, but you need to be sure that everyone is happy at the speed they are going.

I whole heartedly subscribe to this and have been mr slow on occaision, it wont hurt you too much and the uncomfortable (for now) riders appreciate it.

Sedge.

[Gazzar]

Thanks for posting the BRONZ RIDE RIGHT it would be good to do for a new biker and remember there is a TRACK DAY IN TAUPO on the 18\12\05 run by FROSTY.
I normally would not say this but you JSG have sad that you did the bronz ride right and it was good for experience.
I started rideing in the 80s i road for about 9 years untell a mate lost a leg in a bike crash. I started rideing again last year so you could call me a newbie.
I have never had a rider {JSG } pass me on the out side of a blind corner before in my life and i was not the only one that it happend to on that ride.
I think all newbies will learn bad things seeing this type of SHIT on group rides so pass properly as this dosn't look good for the bronz ride right test you did.
To all please ride safe.
Gary

[justsomeguy]

Thanks for posting the BRONZ RIDE RIGHT it would be good to do for a new biker and remember there is a TRACK DAY IN TAUPO on the 18\12\05 run by FROSTY.
I normally would not say this but you JSG have sad that you did the bronz ride right and it was good for experience.
I started rideing in the 80s i road for about 9 years untell a mate lost a leg in a bike crash. I started rideing again last year so you could call me a newbie.
I have never had a rider {JSG } pass me on the out side of a blind corner before in my life and i was not the only one that it happend to on that ride.
I think all newbies will learn bad things seeing this type of SHIT on group rides so pass properly as this dosn't look good for the bronz ride right test you did.
To all please ride safe.
Gary

Hi Gazzar,

I'm not really fast and I only have front brakes at the moment so was riding pretty carefully..... you sure it was me that passed you like that??

Yelow graphic helmet on a black ZZR250 with a smashed up right hand side??

I apologise for any concern I've caused.

I am only advertising the BRONZ course as I feel it is something the newbies should do and for 45 it is great value.

[eliot-ness]

White Trash. If you knew of a 16 years old car driver who had 9 crashes in 6 months would you say "he's gaining experience, leave him alone"???? Attitudes
like your's are one of the reasons so many parents are against letting their kids have bikes. I insisted my own sons had bikes before cars but only after riding school lessons. Result, neither have had accidents, on bikes or in cars. Experience of falling off is easily and painfully gained. Bravado is like a power tool from the Wharehouse. Cheap but not impressive.

"Boring old prick with 50 years "experience"
"There are old bikers and bold bikers, but not many old, bold bikers"