Position in seat?

[The Stranger:Me]

How come you have the same avatar as Squiggles?
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/me...2980-Squiggles

Ah squiggles has the same avatar as me.
What's that got to do with position on the seat?

[bogan]

Hell thats awesome!!

Everything works on first principles in applied maths - but your video seems like a layering of many effects, all based on the first principle of conservation of angular momentum. On my observatin many things could be causing the overall look.

The effects could be:
- forces caused by moving gyorcopic effects ( by moving the handlebars and hence the spinning front wheel) and their associated rules
- the way that he leaves the jump (already moving to the side and not stationary) so that he can change the momentum back in mid air to cause some other pat of the bike to move in an opposite rotational angular direction to compensate, and
- changing speed of rotation of the wheels by braking or accelerating, causing the bike tp angle up or down.
-optical illusions from him leaving the ramp at an angle that is not expected (which allows him to be more misaligned from the start).

But I reckon his trick looks so good ecause he combines all of these effects...
AWESOME!

yeh obviously all those things are present, but the interactions are more what im interested in, for example, turning the bars in mid air puts lean on the bike (countersteering principal), but then the same principal is applied to the rear wheel as it is rotated about the bikes lean axis, which then twists the whole bike in the direction of the steering, and varying the rear wheel speeds adjusts the efect of the later, but also adjusts the orientation of the bike.....

Also, this technique is actually used in racing for faster lap times, how cool is that!

So after all that did we get a consensus on if the OP needs to move his seating position or not?
After all that was the question you guys were answering right.

I though it was decided the OP shouldnt have polished his tank? thats as far as I got, then I looked again and the thread was dath-ified

[Sentox]

I'm not sure what's worse... the fact I spawned this thread or the fact I read the last four pages with genuine interest

[bogan]

I'm not sure what's worse... the fact I spawned this thread or the fact I read the last four pages with genuine interest

So did you get a good answer to your original question then? And yeh, I find the bike 'physics' quite interesting too, both simple and extremely complex all at once.

[R-Soul]

yeh obviously all those things are present, but the interactions are more what im interested in, for example, turning the bars in mid air puts lean on the bike (countersteering principal), but then the same principal is applied to the rear wheel as it is rotated about the bikes lean axis, which then twists the whole bike in the direction of the steering, and varying the rear wheel speeds adjusts the efect of the later, but also adjusts the orientation of the bike.....

Also, this technique is actually used in racing for faster lap times, how cool is that!



I though it was decided the OP shouldnt have polished his tank? thats as far as I got, then I looked again and the thread was dath-ified

Yeah should not polish tank, but also open his hip to the inwards side in corners to have better overall balance on teh bike going through corners. When you are balanced then you are not hanging off or leaning on anything too much (besides the footpegs). and when you aren't leaning on anything too much, then your nuts are OK....

Seriously try it - you will never look back.

[bogan]

Yeah should not polish tank, but also open his hip to the inwards side in corners to have better overall balance on teh bike going through corners. When you are balanced then you are not hanging off or leaning on anything too much (besides the footpegs). and when you aren't leaning on anything too much, then your nuts are OK....

Seriously try it - you will never look back.

never polished a tank in my life, been thinking bout getting stompgrips for a while though as the bros's tank isn't such a good shape for gripping, been doing all that other stuff for years (you left off only use the inside arm for cornering too). And no I will never look back, as the bike corners where you look, and i don't wanna be cornering backwards, if you know what I mean!

[GOONR]

.....(you left off only use the inside arm for cornering too). ....

I was actually going to ask if people started their counter steering with a push or a pull of the bars. I guess it's a push then.

[Sentox]

I was actually going to ask if people started their counter steering with a push or a pull of the bars. I guess it's a push then.

I use both arms (push and pull), personally. I find it lends more control and requires less effort, and avoids one arm unconsciously stiffening up.

So did you get a good answer to your original question then? And yeh, I find the bike 'physics' quite interesting too, both simple and extremely complex all at once.

Yeah, mostly don't polish the tank Definitely getting some stomp grips though; figure it should make it a lot easier to grip the tank in general.

[Morcs]

If ya have to think about it and analyse it, you probably need to spend more time actually concerntrating on riding rather than wondering whether you want to dry hump your tank or not.

Noobs.

[bogan]

I use both arms (push and pull), personally. I find it lends more control and requires less effort, and avoids one arm unconsciously stiffening up.

The reasoning for using one arm only is the same actually! more control and less effort, as with two you can get uneven forces, both pushing slightly etc, i think i explained that poorly, but can find appropriate chapter later if you want, is shed time now.

[Sentox]

The reasoning for using one arm only is the same actually! more control and less effort, as with two you can get uneven forces, both pushing slightly etc, i think i explained that poorly, but can find appropriate chapter later if you want, is shed time now.

I guess it's a case of what works for you. Sport Riding Techniques firmly recommended push/pull in conjunction... I've tried it all ways on the road, and for me, using both arms helped me overcome a strong tendency for my unused arm to stiffen up and resist my countersteering efforts (which may not be a problem for another individual). I can see your point about uneven forces, but if you can train your fingers and ankle to modulate both brakes effectively in a hard stop, surely you can train your arms to work together for steering inputs?

[Morcs]

Reading techniques and consciously using them doesnt really work.

By actually riding using the basics like ensuring your line is decent, braking/button-off/getting on the gas timings, and having your eyes looking in the right place, things like bar inputs, seating position, weight distribution etc.. come naturally.

Stop overthinking everything!

[Sentox]

Reading techniques and consciously using them doesnt really work.

By actually riding using the basics like ensuring your line is decent, braking/button-off/getting on the gas timings, and having your eyes looking in the right place, things like bar inputs, seating position, weight distribution etc.. come naturally.

I don't buy it. A lot of riders naturally tend towards riding crossed up, for example.

On the flipside of the coin, some things, like counter-steering, do come naturally. But understanding it and being able to consciously employ it surely has to be better than some vague idea of "leaning the bike".

[p.dath]

Reading techniques and consciously using them doesnt really work.

Perhaps not for you.

Learning through your own experience with no outside influences is the best way to get bad techniques thoroughly engrained into your riding.

[bogan]

Reading techniques and consciously using them doesnt really work.

By actually riding using the basics like ensuring your line is decent, braking/button-off/getting on the gas timings, and having your eyes looking in the right place, things like bar inputs, seating position, weight distribution etc.. come naturally.

Stop overthinking everything!

dunno if you read the first post, but his seating position wasn't coming naturaly! also its far easier to start doing things the right way than try and break bad habits later.

I guess it's a case of what works for you. Sport Riding Techniques firmly recommended push/pull in conjunction... I've tried it all ways on the road, and for me, using both arms helped me overcome a strong tendency for my unused arm to stiffen up and resist my countersteering efforts (which may not be a problem for another individual). I can see your point about uneven forces, but if you can train your fingers and ankle to modulate both brakes effectively in a hard stop, surely you can train your arms to work together for steering inputs?

drop the unused arm right down, onto tank if possible, and it wont resist the other arms efforts.
Found the chapter and it basically says its a lot easier to just use one than try and co-ordinate both arms so they are not in conflict. The brakes are different as they are not working against each other, to much force on both will cause both to lock up, too much force on both bars will just use too much force, which then makes the steering very stiff with respect to road changes etc. After reading the chapter it seems odd that Sport Riding Techniques recommend both, but then if I read their bit, only one arm may seem odd.