Police killing us again!

[Bikemad]

Agreed. If he's done it that often he needs rooting.

ummmmm.........bags not dude

[Ixion]

Got those figures yet Ixion? you should really produce them to expose the true extent of the problem.

Well, lets see.

This is from the press, covers ONLY those where it went horribly bad.

Last year, a Nelson police officer was given diversion after he made a u-turn in front of a following car on State Highway 6 at Atawhai and the cars collided. No-one was injured in the crash.
In 2008, a police highway patrol car was hit by a following vehicle as it made a u-turn to chase a speeding motorcyclist near Midhirst in Taranaki. The following vehicle had pulled out and was passing the patrol car when the officer turned. No one was injured in the crash.
In December 2007, two motorcyclists were hurt after a police car did a U-turn in front of them in the Upper Buller Gorge near Nelson. The officer was turning to chase a speeding motorcyclist heading in the other direction.
Later that month, a motorcyclist was seriously injured when a police car, responding to an emergency call, made a u-turn on State Highway 2 near Maramarua in Waikato.

Add to that , since the Buller gorge incident.

Two occasions where I personally had to take emergency action to avoid a cop doing stupid.
At least 7 or 8 references on this site that I can recall, including at least a couple in this thread. That's just the ones that made a mention.

D' y' see a pattern here. No, probably not, none so blind as they who will not see.

And as Mr Tooman is on record as opining that every motorcyclist in the country is a recidivist drink rider , because he's seen bikes parked outside licensed cafes, I have no doubt he will easily convince himself that the rider was entirely to blame.

I wonder if the cop wandered over the body of the rider and abused him, as the Buller gorge cop did? Maybe you should start a poll?

Or , easier, see if anyone can remember an occasion when a cop did a SAFE U turn ?

[Dave-]

it's very sad indeed.

but be realistic guys, you cant expect the officer to do kinematic equations in his head preceding a persuit.

there's already laws in place that make the officers actions illegal and they were broken, do you expect additional laws or rules to remain unbroken?

[peasea]

What exactly are you pissed off about the fact that the motorcyclist died or the fact that it was a cop doing a u-turn that caused his death?People in cars have been killing motorcyclists a long time and generally theres no "the sky is falling" reaction on here followed by pages of discussion in fact most times theres no mention.Cant personally see any reason for this thread other than the fact a cop was involved,given the number of cars driven by Joe Public compared to those driven by cops then methinks your barking up the wrong tree.

The thing is; these cops (plural) who have pulled these dangerous turns have done so "in the execution of their duty" etc etc. Be that as it may, the cops are given certain powers when they go through their (so-called) training and they were exercising those powers right? However, with those powers comes responsibility, or at least it should. They need to use their powers responsibly and part of that responsibility is to perform their duty without placing members of the public at risk, or 'undue risk', whatever. This responsibility is lacking.

[ukusa]

I nearly had a similar experience on Easter Saturday. My son and I were riding down Marshlands Rd and a cop about 3 seconds ahead of us (my preferred following distance these days) hit his brakes and did a U turn to chase something. I have a paranoid distrust of all car drivers, including ones with disco lights, so the moment I saw him braking and pulling to the left i was on my brakes, so I continued on my journey and pretty much forgot about it until today. I was lucky, I had around 3 secs of space.

But the story has a twist. On the Thursday (2 days before) I got pinged by a cop for doing 63 kmh, and he had to do a U turn to get me because when he picked me up he was on the other side of the road. After he had told me how dangerously I was riding he spotted a dodgy looking boy racer car going the other way, jumped in his car and did another U turn and I remember at the time noticing that a car moved to the left of the road to avoid him.

I'm saddened by this news, but not surprised; in fact if I am at all surprised it's that more people aren't killed by Police errors.

teaching my son to drive at the moment, followed a cop around the Sockburn roundabout. I'm telling my son to indicate left to turn off the roundabout as we watch the cop in front taking the same direction as us WITHOUT indicating. Not the crime of the century, but not the first time I've witnessed this. These people are supposedly the enforcers of the rules of our roads, and they don't seem to know the rules themselves. Are they just lazy (mmmm, donuts).
As for u-turns, yes they can be dangerous, but also perfectly safe when done properly and in the right conditions. NOT on a blind hill/rise!
I am saddened to here of another needless death on our roads, and my thoughts go out to Paul's family.

[Mom]

heard on the radio today quoting the mr tooman cop sayin the officer involved is a veteran cop who has worked tirelessly to reduce the road toll...........

I'd be very, very surprised if this was the first time that 'veteran' had done something crazy to catch a speedster.

I can vouch for one veteran cop in that area and his ability to u-turn. I got a ticket in my car a few years ago, not very far from where this terrible crash happened. Now I got done for 113kph in the outside lane of a passing lane overtaking a truck. Copper was coming the other way. Next thing I know he is carving up the traffic behind me all lights and sirens. So I pulled over. His first words to me after commenting on how fast I was going was "I had to dangerously turn through 3 lanes of moving traffic to catch you". "My response was you didn't have to."

Be interesting to see if it is the same bloke.

What also scares me re the vulnerability thing is that this has happened to someone who had alot of skill on a motorbike and he obviously didn't have a chance.....

The 'baying for blood' and anger that people are feeling is understandable at the moment but for me it's the realisation that we are so vulnerable on our bikes and we should never take that for granted. And I am sorry but I feel as sorry for the cop as I do for Paul's family. It could have happened to any of us. Let's hope that a lesson may finally be learnt by everyone from this tragedy.

I am with you there Hels, but frankly I would never have pulled a U-turn/3 point turn there so I dont think that particular thing could happen to me as the driver of a car. As far as on my bike goes...

I ride like everyone is out to kill me, and that includes being hyper aware if I can not see the clear road in front of me.

Incredibly stupid, sensless thing to have happened.

[swbarnett]

To catch a car travelling at 154kph, from a standing start, giving the pursued vehicle a start of , say 3 minutes, how fast to catch it within 5 km?

Faster than the speed of light. The car's already done 7.7km.

[Bikemad]

it's very sad indeed.

but be realistic guys, you cant expect the officer to do kinematic equations in his head preceding a persuit.

no..........but be good if he looks both ways and for other legal motorists before pulling out to start his pursuit

[miloking]

Got those figures yet Ixion? you should really produce them to expose the true extent of the problem.

You mean these figures??? well here they are....

[steve_t]

but be realistic guys, you cant expect the officer to do kinematic equations in his head preceding a persuit.

The don't have to do any equations in their heads. They just need to assess if it is safe to do a u-turn (or 3 point turn) by checking that they can see far enough in either direction for a vehicle not to collide with them

[peasea]

Well, lets see.

This is from the press, covers ONLY those where it went horribly bad.



Add to that , since the Buller gorge incident.

Two occasions where I personally had to take emergency action to avoid a cop doing stupid.
At least 7 or 8 references on this site that I can recall, including at least a couple in this thread. That's just the ones that made a mention.

I'm also happy to post the details of what happened to my daughter in Dec 08 and also details of a cop doing a u-turn over double yellows (in a dip in the road) in front of my missus to chase me a couple of easters ago.

Fuckin' wankers!

[Forest]

It makes me think how pointless this whole incident is (not accident that would imply there is nobody at fault)...yes the reason for the pursuit was someone doing 154.3 km/h but that is still peanuts considering most other civilized countries (europe) have 130Km/h limits on open roads (or no limits at all) so most people travel at 150km/h anyway and its not considered nothing but "little over the limit" but here its a crime against humanity!!!

I say lets review open road speed limits while we are at it!!!

New Zealand is not Europe. In Europe:

1. It is much harder for drivers to obtain a driving license.

2. The construction and maintenance of the roading system is of a higher standard.

[MSTRS:Me]

...now we are seeing the issues that lack of on the job experience causes.

I call Bullshit! to that...
In the Buller Gorge incident, that git had 30 years HP experience.
I believe it's more about what they're told to do, coupled with the individual's ability to actually think, rather than lack of experience...

[Str8 Jacket]

I am with you there Hels, but frankly I would never have pulled a U-turn/3 point turn there so I dont think that particular thing could happen to me as the driver of a car. As far as on my bike goes...

For sure and in hindesight he probably wouldn't have either. Now he has to live with this stupid mistake for the rest of his life....

[ukusa]

What exactly are you pissed off about the fact that the motorcyclist died or the fact that it was a cop doing a u-turn that caused his death?People in cars have been killing motorcyclists a long time and generally theres no "the sky is falling" reaction on here followed by pages of discussion in fact most times theres no mention.Cant personally see any reason for this thread other than the fact a cop was involved,given the number of cars driven by Joe Public compared to those driven by cops then methinks your barking up the wrong tree.Dead is dead,needless is needless no matter what the occupation of the car driver.

The difference with this one is the poor guy was killed by a person who's job it is to uphold the law, and who's job involves preaching the virtues to everyone else on the road. Seems he didn't practice what he preached! No different really than if a cop robbed a bank or murdered someone, it will create more discussion because ultimately they are breaking the laws they are paid to enforce.