Top Gear / Isle of Mann

[TonyB]

Also noticed that Clarkson spent a lot of time talking to bikers. I think he respects us, the whole anti biker bit is a windup to get a bite and good ratings. His whole show is done that way.

I think the track footage illustrated graphically the main difference between cars and bikes: at the Nurburg Ring, if you loose control in a car you'll hopefully just spin around a couple of times, tag the armco and you'll be OK. If you makesame mistake on a bike you have a much, much higher chance of heading home in an ambulance. Sensible bikers are never going to push as hard as a guy in a car, the penalty for a mistake is just too high.

[Lou Girardin]

Jeeza takes how many laps to do a 9.59? Then the German chickie does a 9.12 first time up. Good one Jeremy!
As far as him passing bikes in corners though, I'm damn sure I'd let some stranger in a cage have the line too.

[Ixion]

It wasn't a real Morgan - it had no leather strap holding down the bonnet...that's how you tell a morgan y'know.

Well, therer are those who would say that a real Morgan doesn't have a bonnet. Just this honkin' big V Twin engine out front, all exposed.

[Oscar]

Motorcycling is dangerous. Motorcycle racing is very dangerous. This is in the nature of the beast. It would be possible to make motorcycle racing very safe. Just make the riders go very slowly,

The TT is motorcycle racing. Track racing is a spectator sport with interest and purpose removed along with the risk

Surely the same logic that has been put forward with regard to crashes by experienced riders on KB rides applies even more so to racers ? If you are a motorcycle racer it is up to you to know the limits of your skills, of your bike. If you ride outside the safety margin of your skills or your bike, and you crash it is your shortcoming that is responsible. Not the bike makers, not the race officials (unless they are guilty of some absurd dereliction), not the people who laid out the track. They are not sitting in the saddle Only the rider is, only the rider makes the call about how hard to push. [Credit : I pinched some of this from someone elses post about that SH22 ride - Mr White Trash or Mr Wickd One I think. ]

All true, and I personally agree with it to point.
There are two flaws in the argument, however.
One is that if you look at the history of MotoGP you will see that it is often the riders who lead the charge for saftey. It was probably Kenny Roberts Snr's rider revolt in the late '70's early '80's that marginalised events like IOMTT in the first place. You see, it's not always a clear cut choice for the rider. Often sponsor commitments and the pressure to keep ones ride has people doing what good sense would otherwise rule out (in the Motocourse 50 Year Annual, there is a picture of a 750gp race crossing a railway line - the lights and signs are still in place, with hay bales roped to them).

Secondly, and sadly, we no longer have the freedom to think that way - there are too many people out there who just know better. In this country we know better than most that the authorities will grab any excuse to restrict and/or tax anything...

[bugjuice]

here's a lap in an M3, aparently he broke a record (but you can't hear the music skip..)
http://www.m3gurus.com/videos/m3_gtr_nurburgring.wmv
~53mb but a good lap of the full circuit.

I recorded TG, but haven't watched it yet. Don't think I'll get to til tomorrow now.. sux. but looked good, and I remember seeing him in the car and slagging off the bikes he catches up to. If I was on the bike and saw he was driving, I would have wasted him! Just to proove the point..

I generally like JC, but not when he's up his own arse about bikes, cos he just can't handle one, so he has no opinion on them except his 'cars are better'.. He's a pretty good journo, and knows his stuff on cars, but the 2-wheel thing has just stumped him, so he doesn't bother to try. So he can only slag off.

As for the diesel thing, didn't Ford put together a diesel racing class in the UK? I remember hearing about it, and saw a fukin sexy Focus ready for the track, to find out it's a 300hp tractor engine in it!! Not sure on the class, but I'm sure they go thru more tyres than fuel!

[Pixie]

As Lou pointed out, the german chick hadn't driven the car before she put in the 9.12s lap.
As for diesels ,both fifth gear and top gear have run a skoda diesel against a BMW mini cooper and the skoda beat it on the race track both times.
Cummins developed a diesel Indy car in the 60's,useing one of their commercial engines.It had so much potential,especially fuel efficiency,that they changed the rules to ban diesels.

[ManDownUnder]

Jeeza takes how many laps to do a 9.59? Then the German chickie does a 9.12 first time up. Good one Jeremy!
As far as him passing bikes in corners though, I'm damn sure I'd let some stranger in a cage have the line too.

I thought that too - but then realised it's probably a good demonstration of how important knowledge/familiarity of the track is relative to that of the vehicle...

She KNEW that track!

Put them both on a strange track and see what happens... (I don;t know - just think it would be something interesting to do).

And yes - watching him talking to the bikers there - there was no biker anti going on. He just likes to wind people up, and he happens to have a go at bikers.

Of interest, one of the presenters rides a bike... (not clarkson, not the short one, the other guy - the Bently man). He mentioned it on the show a few weeks ago.

MDU

[James Deuce]

.

Of interest, one of the presenters rides a bike... (not clarkson, not the short one, the other guy - the Bently man). He mentioned it on the show a few weeks ago.

MDU

James May. Rides a Guzzi Corsa I believe.

Richard (the short one) rides as well.

[Lou Girardin]

I thought that too - but then realised it's probably a good demonstration of how important knowledge/familiarity of the track is relative to that of the vehicle...

She KNEW that track!

Put them both on a strange track and see what happens... (I don;t know - just think it would be something interesting to do).

And yes - watching him talking to the bikers there - there was no biker anti going on. He just likes to wind people up, and he happens to have a go at bikers.

Of interest, one of the presenters rides a bike... (not clarkson, not the short one, the other guy - the Bently man). He mentioned it on the show a few weeks ago.

MDU

I think she'd do him anywhere, she was far more aggressive, Jeeza was all over the place.
I liked her comments about his "unusual" driving style.

[ManDownUnder]

James May. Rides a Guzzi Corsa I believe.

Richard (the short one) rides as well.

... which I expect explains part of the harrassment of motorcyclists... it's a go at hi fellow workers as much as anything...

[Oscar]

Did you catch Clarkson's reference to Homotorcyclists...bastid.
He is still a funny man tho.

The competition 5th Gear actually tests motorcycles.

[chris]

No one is forced to partisipate, nor be a spectator. They do it knowing full well the risks involved.

Quite true. But Oscar's statistic that 1.7 riders and up to 4 spectators is an average yearly death toll at the TT is simply not good. Just imagine that every year in MotoGP, 2 riders and 4 spectators are killed. Just how long do you think that would be allowed to carry on.

I have probably completed over 100 laps of the Nordschleife in a race car and believe me, it can be scary and very dangerous. There is NO run off of any note, maybe 3 gravel traps and 2 escape roads. Other than that, you have approximately 2 to 3 metres (less in a lot of places) of grass between the edge of the track and the armco. It is also an extremely fast circuit that is very narrow in places. My biggest shunt in a race car was at the 'ring, BUT, I would go back tomorrow to race there, I wouldn't on a bike though.

By the way, Sabine would most likely blow the doors off anyone around the 'ring.

[chris]

Sabine is a professional racing driver. She is employed to drive the passenger laps. She is very very quick and would be at any circuit.

[Lou Girardin]

The 4 spectator deaths at IOM would be from the public 'mad laps' would they not?
I don't seem to recall any dying from being hit by racers lately.

[Hitcher]

Great camera-work on last night's TopGear coverage at the Nurburgring. I hadn't realised before how technical some of those corners are. And how unforgiving (Particularly the one where Nicki Lauda "lost his ears". Oh dear).

I had to laugh at the end when Sabine blew Jeremy's much (self-)lauded lap time out of the water. With a bit of practice she may well have got the Jag under 9 minutes.