Motorcycle accident myths - A public presentation on the facts

[Katman]

Forgive me for reading between the lines of your posts. Which are of the flavour that we are masters of our own destiny.

That's not reading between the lines at all.

I'll happily go on record saying we're the masters of our own destiny.

That's not the same as 'always being at fault' though.

[RentaTriumph]

No mention of quad bike, 2 wheeled farm bikes or dirt bike bike accidents in the reports. This all contributed to our ACC levies rising so why aren't they included in the numbers especially when quad bikes cause so many deaths a Year with riders under 15 years old. Have I missed something?.

[MSTRS:Me]

That's not reading between the lines at all.

I'll happily go on record saying we're the masters of our own destiny.

That's not the same as 'always being at fault' though.

Would that were so. If there is a difference, it's so subtle as to make no difference.
To be master etc suggests that one is in control, therefore what happens to one is one's 'fault'...

[RiderInBlack]

I do however believe that in nearly all motorcycle accidents there is something that the motorcyclist could have done to avoid or greatly lessen the severity of the accident.

That is it true, but that is also true for any road user. I'd be more sympathetic to ya view point if you at less acknowledged that while you single-minded try hammering your view home anytime a rider cames down and another vehicle is involved (see http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1129753254 , http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1129753222 , http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1129753160 ). I have not once seen ya post that you accept that the other road user had some responsibility in an accident. In FM case, the accident was very clearly the driver's fault with little he could have done about it bar not be there that day.
One of the longest Motorcycle Injury cases I have looked after in Hospital was due to a unsecured Trailer braking free of a car and hitting the rider. He was riding legally and the car was traveling in the other direction (so he wasn't riding too close). There was nothing he could have done to avoid that accident bar not being there ether.
So Katman, although we accept as riders that to stay safe on the road we need ta be more aware than most road users, it is not fair to lay majority of the blame on our shoulders. Other road users need to accept their fair share of responsibility too.

[Katman]

Would that were so. If there is a difference, it's so subtle as to make no difference.
To be master etc suggests that one is in control, therefore what happens to one is one's 'fault'...

If you want to go through life letting someone else control your destiny John then good luck to you.

[Swoop]

I note that Dr David Cohen has contributed to the paper.

[p.dath]

Unfortunately, the governments answer to the visibility issue will simply be to make hi-viz vests compulsory.

I think we should be focusing more on our own ability to see and read situations.

If you believe Professor Lamb's research, and you live in an urban Area like Auckland, the problem tends to be a driver pulling out in front of you in a 50km/h zone.
Agreed, we need to focus on our issue of not being seen through increased situational awareness, but sometimes you just can't plan for every unexpected situation (in fact, most of us involved in accidents can't, the statistics would suggest). Sometimes (actually a lot of the time it would seem), a car will simply just pull out in front of you and you wont be able to do anything about it.

[Katman]

Agreed, we need to focus on our issue of not being seen through increased situational awareness, but sometimes you just can't plan for every unexpected situation (in fact, most of us involved in accidents can't, the statistics would suggest).

Statistics say absolutely nothing about peoples situational awareness (other than some people clearly don't have any).

[p.dath]

Let me done my flame suit for a little while.

We have to wear motorcycle helmets because there is a clear link between a "bad" result in an accident and not wearing a helmet. This is a personal freedom that was removed from us. Should it have been?

If you do believe that wearing a helmet should remain a law, then do you think that wearing something to improve your visibility should also be a law, for the same reason? Remembering that the vast majority of accidents occur when a car pulls out in front of a motorcycle claiming they did not see the motorcycle.

If you don't believe there should be a helmet law, then I assume you also think that suicide should be legal? It's obviously a personal choice that the state has also removed from us.

[MSTRS:Me]

If you want to go through life letting someone else control your destiny John then good luck to you.

Fuck off. I control what I do.
But none of us can always avoid being caught up in what others do. And to suggest that we can, is bullshit.
R-I-B said it perfectly...

[Mr Merde]

.... intelligent members of parliment.

So when did we have a new election? Trying hard to think of any politican who would qualify for this description.

[Katman]

But none of us can always avoid being caught up in what others do. And to suggest that we can, is bullshit.

You can at least attempt to avoid being caught up in what others do.

That is what being the master of your own destiny is about.

[Mr Merde]

You can at least attempt to avoid being caught up in what others do.

That is what being the master of your own destiny is about.

Sorry KAtman but todays society is totally based on any problem being someones or something elses fault.

Political Correctness and its advocates have managed to totally brainwash the majority.

You are not the master as its someone elses fault or responsibility to look after you.

[MSTRS:Me]

You can at least attempt to avoid being caught up in what others do.

That is what being the master of your own destiny is about.

Well...no, it's not, actually.
Attempting to control what happens to you, when some-else's destiny impinges on you, is not being master etc. It IS trying to avoid being a slave tho...
I'm trying not to be obtuse, but mere words don't really convey the sentiment...

Sorry KAtman but todays society is totally based on any problem being someones or something elses fault.

Political Correctness and its advocates have managed to totally brainwash the majority.

You are not the master as its someone elses fault or responsibility to look after you.

And, no, that's NOT what I'm saying, either.

[RiderInBlack]

You can at least attempt to avoid being caught up in what others do.

That is what being the master of your own destiny is about.

Which is entirely impossible in the Universe we live in. Everything in this Universe has some effect on everything else in this Universe (be it very slight). Your choices effect others (even if ya not aware of it) as their choices effect yours, and so on and so on. Ya have to be an advanced mathematician to even get close to predicting cause and effect of even ya smallest choices, let alone the cause and effect of other poeples' choices on you.