We're watching you, Mr Smith. Protest 27th June 2010

[Ixion]

Perhaps this one has not been sold as well as it could have been?

I have found that a large bunch of bikes is anything but quiet they can take up a huge amount of space if parked correctly and cause a bit of confusion for the constabulary when they group in large numbers on the motorways despite plod being made aware they would be there

With respect, I think it is now only preaching to the converted. At the last protest, there were 135 off bikes. Who listened to some speeches (which we al agree with).And then rode up Queen St. Which was very nice for those who did it.

But, how much impact did that have on the general public? No media mention at all that I saw, many of those who did see us on Queen St though we were part of the anti-mining protest. I doubt that anyone except a handful of people on Queen St even knew it happened.

Same goes for the much loved "ride slowly on the motorways". Motorways being slow in Auckland is the norm. The only people who will know its a bunch of bikers at the front at the half dozen cars at the front.

Bikers making speeches to bikers about how unfair it is is therapeutic, but it's not going to grab the attention of the 90% of the country who don't actually give a stuff.And if they have any knowledge at all of the issue, think we got our levies reduced , so it's all good now, right?

If bikers want to make the case that ACC is still rotten , we need to put on a spectacle. Something that attracts attention from the general public, not just bikers.

Bikers are famously about love and disrespect. Its time to show the disrespect .

Anyone ever hear what became of the petition ? You know, the one that we all put such effort into. The one with thousands of signatures. That was presented to Parliament by Mr Goff. Ever hear if any of TPTB took any notice of it ? Yep, disappeared without trace. A very polite respectful, way of making our point. But it didn't exactly get a lot of traction.

What DID get traction and attention (and the media still remember it and talk about it ) ? Bikers chanting BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT. And disrespecting a Minister of the Crown.

So , this isn't a protest for those who don't want to do anything other than sign petitions and politely listen to speeches. You're still very welcome. But Mr Smith and his ACC (and maybe others) are going to be disrepected. Legally (except maybe for some parking where shouldn't and making excessive noise type things ) , but not very politely.

If we do get media presence, there may be pictures of people. And some people have jobs where disrespect to authorities isn't allowed. Best not to come , in that case.

Love and disrespect. It's what we do .

[Katman]

Anyone ever hear what became of the petition ? You know, the one that we all put such effort into. The one with thousands of signatures. That was presented to Parliament by Mr Goff. Ever hear if any of TPTB took any notice of it ? Yep, disappeared without trace. A very polite respectful, way of making our point. But it didn't exactly get a lot of traction.

What about this one that you couldn't bother your arse doing anything about?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...light=petition

[Ixion]

I'm personally picking that there will be very few Ulysses members there , BTW. Which probably defines the whole issue. Peter McIntosh DEFINITELY will not approve.Growing old disgracefully, but only very quietly and politely , and if granted permission first.

And in a measure I guess maybe we're moving toward defining where NZ motorcycling is.

Peter Fonda, or Peter Mcintosh? The angry young men have grown old, and meek and respectful. The people who were famous for sticking it to the Man have become the Man.

So perhaps that's where NZ motorcycling is heading, polite and respectful, apologising constantly to the car drivers for getting blood on the cars , Mr Katman's vision of the lawn bowls society exchanging their Toyota Corollas for maxi scooters.

We shell see, I guess.

[Katman]

So perhaps that's where NZ motorcycling is heading, polite and respectful,

I would suggest that 'polite and respectful' in the way we present motorcycling, as a whole, to the general public would get us far further than your deluded rebel without a clue approach, you old fool.

[Mom]

You know I attended a BRONZ meeting not long after these increases were first announced and the mandate from the attendees was to peacefully protest, infact I am certain BRONZ came out and said there would be NO illegal or disruptive protests condoned by them. I remember organising protests and getting no support from BRONZ incase we disrupted things. Things have started to heat up again and a small protest was organised recently(sadly clashed with the greenpeace anti mining one) but it happened. There is a fairly tight group of people dedicated to this cause, many of them not happy at all with peaceful protest and more than happy to make a scene. There are plans afoot and reasonably well progressed, but sitting, waiting for an opportunity to be used.

Up until this announcement from BRONZ it had been made clear that no protest ride would be supported by BRONZ at this event so one was not organised. This protest action is a BRONZ baby, no doubt I will be there in support, but wont be organising a ride associated with the protest.

[Toaster]

I would suggest that 'polite and respectful' in the way we present motorcycling, as a whole, to the general public would get us far further than your deluded rebel without a clue approach, you old fool.

Correct. You can't gain any empathy from the public or government by disorderly or incitive behaviour. They will distance themselves very quickly. Covering faces is simply intimidatory and cowardly. Do it by the book and lobby properly. Breaking the law will only hurt motorcycling's already tenuous reputation and land people in Court.... costing them much and gaining nothing but ill will.

[Ocean1]

I am certain BRONZ came out and said there would be NO illegal or disruptive protests condoned by them.

I'd just like to say that this was the reason I didn't support the protests at the time. S'not true though, I was outa town.

However, it is true that adding an hour or two to the average punter's commute a few times, or semi-regularly monopolising the CBD parking would do way more to advance the cause than sulking in the town square and muttering quietly.

In this the French've got it right. Just this, but Damn right.

[Ocean1]

Do it by the book and lobby properly.

Correct. If by lobbying properly you mean causing the most people the most inconvienience without breaking the law.

Nobody notices considerate dissent, dude, reply to dodgy legislation with a message of simple truth at maximum volume.

[Ixion]

You know I attended a BRONZ meeting not long after these increases were first announced and the mandate from the attendees was to peacefully protest, in fact I am certain BRONZ came out and said there would be NO illegal or disruptive protests condoned by them. I remember organising protests and getting no support from BRONZ in case we disrupted things. Things have started to heat up again and a small protest was organised recently(sadly clashed with the greenpeace anti mining one) but it happened. There is a fairly tight group of people dedicated to this cause, many of them not happy at all with peaceful protest and more than happy to make a scene. There are plans afoot and reasonably well progressed, but sitting, waiting for an opportunity to be used.

Up until this announcement from BRONZ it had been made clear that no protest ride would be supported by BRONZ at this event so one was not organised. This protest action is a BRONZ baby, no doubt I will be there in support, but wont be organising a ride associated with the protest.

Well, the resolution of that meeting certainly was that BRONZ did not support illegal activity. And that they would attempt to avoid disruption insofar as it could be avoided , whilst recognising that some disruption is unavoidable in protest activities.

Now, as to illegal - technically, riding without a rego label displayed (even if it's in your wallet), is illegal . So anyone who goes along with current rego is being illegal. But, on the assumption that illegal here really means Crimes Act stuff, assault, arson etc, I personally won't be down for that, if only because I don't think $517 is worth it.

Disruption, in fact, is unlikely to be much of an issue on a Sunday morning, we'd need 1000 bikes to do anything significant

But, as for peaceful and respectful, that may be another matter. Of course, it's always up to the people who attend. Nobody can make them do anything, after all.

It's not really quite correct that BRONZ didn't support any of your protests - in fact I think they endorsed all of them , put details in their newsletters, promoted them to the media.

But , life moves on. A good many riders have articulated that they feel it's time we all moved on from the ACC issue and let it rest

Certainly Joe Q Public, that deep and incisive thinker, believes that we have moved on. He thinks that it's all over, that we got our levies reduced and we're all happy little sand boys and sand girls.

So, if the motorcycle community DO still want to push the issue, we need to make Joe aware that we're not happy , and it's not all done and dusted. Weall agree it stinks. That argument is long since won, so we don't need to educate bikers (except Mr Katman). We do need to educate Joe. To do that , we need media coverage.

Sorry, but that's the way the world works. The only way we can get our case and our position in front of any significant percentage of the public is through the media. A protest that doesn't get coverage only showcases our argument to at most a few dozen people - probably not even that. Who like as not have no idea what we're on about anyway.

To get media buy in , we must provide one essential element. Whatever it is has to be newsworthy. Newsworthy by media standards, not ours. And by those standards, middle aged ladies and gentlemen making polite and respectful speeches to each other about how unfair it is , before trundling off for a nice latte, just doesn't count as newsworthy. Nothing personal, and I enjoyed the rides, but they aren't what makes Joe sit up in front of the tele and go "WTF - woz all THAT about". They're not what makes reporters say "Hold the front page..."

What may be newsworthy, is a bunch of angry looking bikers. Looking all mean and sinister and DETERMINED. And behaving disrespectfully. Doing the sort of thing we did in front of Parliament, in fact. Oddly , the iconic feature of BIKEOI!, the "Bullshit, bullshit" chant, wasn't anything BRONZ planned . It was completely spontaneous. But, it was highly newsworthy, it became the defining message of BIKEOI!. If we want media attention we need to replay that angry aggressive note. To remind the press, and Joe, that bikers are, well, BIKERS. And maybe not people it's wise to mess with. Only, we won't have 7000 bikers there to chant. So those that do , will have to make up for lack of numbers by presence. Of course, I don't make the call. The media may think that angry bikers in black leather is also boring. But, less probable.

I mentioned that some riders feel it's time to drop the ACC issue and move on. Others , however, have intimated that they think that a more aggressive approach is called for (noting that aggression doesn't need to mean people getting locked up).

I'm thinking that the turnout on the 27th will help define where the community stands (because remember, this isn't about BRONZ, or any of us - it's about all the bikers in the land). drop it and move on, or escalate. (Not expecting too many , regardless, given that it'll probably be pissing down).

The rides thing - that's a perennial debate. There are those in BRONZ (as well as elsewhere) who feel that a ride, in the publicity spotlight, is too risky . On account of someone falling off and going dead. We've been lucky so far, but, truth be told, we DO fall off our bikes at an alarming rate (note the tactful 'we' there). I wish y'all didn't do that. Makes it really hard to argue about ACC when they can point to such a long list of riders who have buggered themselves (usually at great expense). It's always down to the person holding the handlebars, y'know. And doing it on a protest ride would be a very bad look. So, decision was , no planned rides. 'Course , if people want to ride in, or go somewhere afterwards, well, that another matter. Unofficial, like. I will be , m'self.

[Ixion]

Correct. You can't gain any empathy from the public or government by disorderly or incitive behaviour. They will distance themselves very quickly. Covering faces is simply intimidatory and cowardly. Do it by the book and lobby properly. Breaking the law will only hurt motorcycling's already tenuous reputation and land people in Court.... costing them much and gaining nothing but ill will.

Hm. Lobbying. That's like the 2500 submissions that were made to ACC? Every one of which was completely ignored? Lobbying only works for corporates.

[Dare]

Hm. Lobbying. That's like the 2500 submissions that were made to ACC? Every one of which was completely ignored? Lobbying only works for corporates.

We need a bigger mouse trap.

[MadDuck]

What may be newsworthy, is a bunch of angry looking bikers. Looking all mean and sinister and DETERMINED. And behaving disrespectfully. .

So looking like the run ups to "The Gangs of Oz" that showed last night is the way you want to appear to the general public? I guess you will be inviting the local gangs after all they need regos for their bikes.

[Pixie]

So you want people to turn up to an unknown location wearing balaclavas? I guess I will avoid this one thanks BRONZ.

..............

[Pixie]

Correct. You can't gain any empathy from the public or government by disorderly or incitive behaviour. They will distance themselves very quickly. Covering faces is simply intimidatory and cowardly. Do it by the book and lobby properly. Breaking the law will only hurt motorcycling's already tenuous reputation and land people in Court.... costing them much and gaining nothing but ill will.

Napoleon described the English as "a nation of shopkeepers" -it's a pity NZ didn't get more of a Gallic or Latin heritage.

[mashman]

People have accidents, get over it... do motorcyclists have a higher risk profile... imho, no (50% of accidents happen at home). Our risk profile is "perceived" to be high by those who wish to make us pay for OUR mistakes... (Whiners)But the figures all say motocycling costs lots... get over it, fuck what the figures say, that's not the founding principles of ACC. This is for everyone... we're just trying to highlight it... aaaaaand unfortunately we suck at it because we don't have "enough" power to make a difference... We need to be putting ourselves into a position of power... i'll be happy with a little mischief for a change if it has a chance of getting the message across to the bleaters...

"Otago University has forecast that in any given year farm workers will lose control of quad bikes on approximately 12,645 occasions, resulting in about 1400 injuries. Not all of these will be registered as workplace injury claims with ACC."

HOW MANY OF THESE 1400 INJURIES ARE NOT REGISTERED AS WORK CLAIMS AND WHY NOT... but by asking questions like this we're pushing the Woodhouse principles aside, albeit for good reasons, fact finding... the mere fact that you go looking for trends (and not under a safety umbrella) proves that the "principle" we hold dear, does not matter to those who make policy... there's no other reason to get stats from ACC other than to apportion financial blame... It needs to end.

http://www.3news.co.nz/ACC-Farmer-di...5/Default.aspx