Interesting response/letter from Nick Smith to alternative proposals for ACC

[bogan]

It's got nothing to do with me telling bikers anything.

It is to do with bikers coming to the realisation that it is within our own power to change things for the better.

Yeh, but thats not very constructive is it, how are bikers supposed to come to that realisation?

edit: and no I'm not being deliberately retarded, I'd really like to know.

[Katman]

Yeh, but thats not very constructive is it, how are bikers supposed to come to that realisation?

I'll convey it telepathically.

[bogan]

I'll convey it telepathically.

well good luck with that, think I'll go with the protesting though.

[MSTRS:Me]

Yeah, and the world could end in the year 2012 so what's the fucking point?

When one is up against pollies and their lackeys who will lie and cherry pick/manipulate stats to suit their agenda, there really is little point.
Regardless of whether we fall off too often (I agree - we do) or we are getting better as the stats over the last 20 years would seem to say, there would have to be something truly spectacular over a very long period as regards biker injuries etc to even have a hope of lowered levies.

[Katman]

When one is up against pollies and their lackeys who will lie and cherry pick/manipulate stats to suit their agenda, there really is little point.

That's not cynicism John - that's defeatism.

[MSTRS:Me]

That's not cynicism John - that's defeatism.

Cynical realism.
They have proved that they are not interested in figures (unless it suits their agenda) so a massive improvement in crash rates etc seems a forlorn hope to achieve a change of heart by these pricks.

[The Stranger:Me]

Theres a difference between pointing the finger, and using them to show that bikers are being unfairly targeted. And the more that cry for a return to the woodhouse principals the better imo.



I agree, but its too late for an improvement in statistics to reduce our levies (in the near future anyway), and Nick has been known to fudge or ignore the stats completely.

The stats also need to be in the correct context. We are (almost) uniquely alone in the high use of the road for recreational activity. When we have a recreational accident it's because we are bad drivers. When a Rugby player has a recreational accident it's paid for from the recreational fund no questions asked.
Why aren't our recreational accidents paid for from the recreation fund also?

[Katman]

Cynical realism.
They have proved that they are not interested in figures (unless it suits their agenda) so a massive improvement in crash rates etc seems a forlorn hope to achieve a change of heart by these pricks.

Let me spell it out to you John.

An improvement in accident stats may not effect a change of heart but it gives us extra firepower for the next battle with ACC. (Although I thought I'd spelt it out already).

[FastBikeGear]

The public debate needs to move past statistics if you want wider support from the public. (statistics take an attention span to understand - unless they are represented as a picture or graph). We have done the statistics to death, I will be surprised if someone comes up with a new angle on the statistics that hasn't already been covered somewhere in this forum and anyway talking on this Forum about statistics is talking to the converted. Nick Smith and the National party are only interested in statistics that support their political agenda.

Interestingly.

www.acc.co.nz which was registed last year is now pointing to which web site?
www.accinsurance.co.nz has now also been registered and guess where that is going to be pointed?

[MSTRS:Me]

Let me spell it out to you John.

An improvement in accident stats may not effect a change of heart but it gives us extra firepower for the next battle. (I'd thought I'd spelt it out already).

Sure. Except that every figure we fired at them before was ignored. Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different response...well, you can relate to that, right?
I agree that it would be useful to have better figures, and very nice for a whole lot of riders and their families, but I'm not convinced that stats are going to win this.

[Katman]

I agree that it would be useful to have better figures, and very nice for a whole lot of riders and their families, but I'm not convinced that stats are going to win this.

Well nothing else has done a fat lot of good.

[MSTRS:Me]

Well nothing has done a fat lot of good.

Now, THAT is accurate.

[bogan]

Well nothing else has done a fat lot of good.

thats debatable, what were they trying first, $450 increase, 6000 bikes turn up at parliament then we got a $175 increase, could have been planned that way from the start, or it may not have, I'm keen to go again (in similar numbers) and see what happens.

[schrodingers cat]

So until someone can spearhead a media based campaign (with the media actually being interested in facts) The governments of new Zealand will do what they want because we will bitch and moan and then give up because "its too hard"

The truth isn't news.
The news isn't truth

[FastBikeGear]

So until someone can spearhead a media based campaign (with the media actually being interested in facts) The governments of New Zealand will do what they want because we will bitch and moan and then give up because "its too hard"

Yes nicely put.

But 'Facts' by themselves aren't very interesting. The public are bored with the academic facts and statistics of this issue. This is not war of facts.

Professional sale people are taught to understand the customer's 'WIFIM' (What's In It for Me). What matters in this campaign is how the ACC changes personally and negatively impact on each New Zealander and that's what we need to keep on ILLUSTRATING in this campaign.

Les said at the beginning that this was not going to be a quick campaign and unfortunately he has been proved correct. Les talks about Hard men as riders of Harley's wearing balaclavas!? The real hard men of this campaign are the ones in for the long haul.

However as people come to realisation that National's mismanagement of ACC is costing them severely (Where it truly hurts in their wallet) it is going to bite National much harder than they realised at the next election. I suspect a lot of back benches are not going to be Nick Smith fans after the next election.

How is it that when ACC wasn't broke that ALL New Zealander's are being asked to pay sooo much extra in ACC levies!?

Nick Smith needs to explain this better because quite simply none of the public is swallowing his story at the moment and the more we ask him politely to explain it the bigger the hole he is going to dig.

We need to ramp up and keep the pressure on all the way to the next election. We need to make this one of the election issues to stop Nationals flawed ACC strategy.

Here's a crazy off the cuff idea, Les, why doesn't BRONZ use some of their funds to place an advertisement in the Dominion Post publicly (and nicely without rhetoric and hype) asking Nick Smith why ACC needs to collect more money when top financial analysts are telling us ACC is not broke?