My Speedo doesn't work!

[Motu]

Brake fluid makes white smoke when it burns - but it's got to be bloody hot to do that,you wouldn't be able to put that much heat into your brakes under normal riding.To check the mechanic would have to pull the caliper and pull back the boot,this takes time and labour - he's trying to be kind to you and evade the bosses...if he spends 30 mins on your bike they are going to want to charge you,but if he finds nothing wrong it will be a pointless charge.I don't know what can make smoke without excessive heat - unless it's an external source - hence his theory about stuff off the road burning on the exhaust.

[Ixion]

Hm. Pure guess time. If the pads were down to the metal ? metal to metal contact will makes things hot, even red hot. And with the caliper pistons coming way down the bores (cos of the thin "pads"), mabe a wee bit of fluid is getting past the seals, and meeting that hot metal "pad".

Mechanic tries it, doesn't brake as hard and/or as often, doesn't get the metal hot enough ?

But I'd expect any mechanic to pick worn pads straight off, so I don't think this is a very good theory.

Do you cover the front brake normally ? Maybe holding it on all the time just a bit ?

[Paul in NZ]

Basic Bike mechanics are easily explained...

You bike runs on smoke. Other people will try and waffle on about hydrocarbons like petrol and stuff like electricity but trust me it runs on smoke. This secret has been hidden from the motoring public up until now and remember you read it hear first!

The factory fills your bike up with smoke when they make it and seals it all in tight. Whenever you see any of this smoke escaping it's usually a very bad sign! You are right to be worried.

The most expensive type of smoke is the stuff they squeeze into small places (like wires) and it tends to really expensive to replace when this smoke escapes. Brake smoke is not as expensive (I think cost the pipes are bigger) but its pretty rare that it escapes because it's tame smoke and happy being confined (as opposed to the stuff in the wiring which is pretty angry about pretty well everything and always looking for a chance to make a break for it)

The engine has at least 2 types of smoke.

Smoke can escape from the exhaust pipes but I think they factory puts a LOT of extra smoke of this sort in the engine 'cos sometimes it can loose smoke for a very long time before anything bad happens (although sometimes it all escapes at once in dramatic circumstances). 2 strokes often have an extra tank of this smoke fitted.

Smoke can also escape from what is called the cooling system. This is not a very good sign if you see this and often if you don't stop this smoke dead in its tracks it encourages a massive breakout from it's friends (the other smoke in the engine) and they all burst out at once. This costs a LOT to replace all this smoke and fix the walls.

There are other types of smoke but this is enough science for one day.

Paul N

ps - you sure it's not a coolant leak form an overflow onto a exhaust header or something?

[Ixion]

Another thought - could this be fork oil ?

[Paul in NZ]

Another thought - could this be fork oil ?

Could be... Certainly the mechanic has done fork oil about it

[placidfemme]

Yeah the mechanic hasn't actually taken the brake bits apart to look, he's just knelt down poked and prodded and took it for a ride up the road and back, braked really hard (nice black rubber line left on the road). I've had the ZXR for over 8 months now, and thinking back on it... the smoking problem actually only started after I had my WOF & Service... I didn't have any problems before that.

When he looked at the brakes he said they were fine and still had a lot of life left in them.

I'm sure what you mean by "cover the front brake normally". The bike is always either under shelter or under it's cover if I'm not riding it...

I don't hold onto the front brake either while riding... Even though my ZXR has adjustment settings for the clutch/brake lever's I find it a little bit of a stretch to reach the lever's so I only use them when I need to, otherwise it's a strain to keep my fingers out to touch the lever's.

[placidfemme]

lol so many replies so fast I can't keep up...

When I got my bike serviced in Jan/Feb the mechanic noted: "Too much oil in front forks". I also mentioned this to the mechanic the last time I took the ZXR in, he looked at the forks and pushed the bike so the forks when up and down... and said it's not because of that. The forks are dry and show no signs of fluid leaking out anywhere that I can see...

Paul in NZ mentioned something about the cooling system... very dumb question here on my side... is the ZXR air cooled or cooled by another method? (Not sure why but I always thought it was air cooled...)

However... surely if the smoke was coming from anywhere other than the front wheel area I would see it coming up threw where the handle bars are... or could it be that I only see the smoke from the front end because my headlights show the smoke better?

*is all confused now lol*

[John]

Just a thought but are your disk rotors warped? I have seen 5 imports with warped rotors now... thats what could be causing excessive heat - I had one of my disks glowing red after a ride with bent rotors, but thats fixed.

You can tell by if you get any 'feedback' when braking, when you pull in does the brake lever push your hand off the lever alittle bit?...

another thing that maybe causing the smoke, do you have a coolant leak? or oil dripping onto headers ?...

btw convection means that the steam wont always come straight up from the engine... just remeber that (yes our bikes are watercooled)

[Ixion]

..

I'm sure what you mean by "cover the front brake normally". The bike is always either under shelter or under it's cover if I'm not riding it...

..

Sorry - bit of jargon there. "cover" a lever (brake, clutch, foot brake) means to ride with your hand/fingers/foot resting on it. So if you need to use it you save a fraction of a second. Some riders always or often "cover" their front brake as a safety measure. Two stroke riders always "cover" their clutch lever, in case of seizure (should do, anyway!)

Thing is if you have a sensitive brake and you cover the lever , it sometimes happens that you're actually riding with the brake on a little bit all the time, whcih can make things get pretty hot.

Anyway, you say you don't do that, so discard that one

I'm seriously wondering about a wee bit leak frmm the fork drain screws (assuming that a ZZXR250 has such)

Mechanic noted that there was too much oil in the forks. So presumably that means he drained the forks ? And if the sealing washer on a drain plug was leaking very slowly, once in a while it would form a drop which would/could sometimes drip down onto the hot brake disc. I seem to remember (not sure though) that ATF smokes easily ? (Anyone ? Mr Motu, you must have set fire to some in your time ? )

And you wouldn't notice the loss. And if the drip actually formed on the tip of the plug (as it would) a mechanic wouldn't notice it unless he happened to look just as it was about to drip off (unlikely). It's not like the smear from leaking seals.


Nice theory anyway, pity my theories seldom survive contact with reality. I gotta keep away from that place it doesn't agree with me.

[eliot-ness]

Could be wrong but I was always told to look for the simple things first. A crack in the speedo cable could let water into the bearing in the speedo drive housing. This would eventually cause partial seizure and overheating. Would also explain drop of liquid you saw. Wouldn't expain cable breaking higher up though. Next time you go for a ride check if the housing's warm. Hope that's all it is.
-------------------------------
I just got lost in thought and it wasn't familiar territory

[placidfemme]

Just a thought but are your disk rotors warped? I have seen 5 imports with warped rotors now... thats what could be causing excessive heat - I had one of my disks glowing red after a ride with bent rotors, but thats fixed.

You can tell by if you get any 'feedback' when braking, when you pull in does the brake lever push your hand off the lever alittle bit?...

another thing that maybe causing the smoke, do you have a coolant leak? or oil dripping onto headers ?...

btw convection means that the steam wont always come straight up from the engine... just remeber that (yes our bikes are watercooled)

I don't think my disc rotors are warped, when I thought my brakes were binding I was told to feel/touch the rotors and feel how hot they are, if they are really hot then they could be binding or not releasing completely. Whenever I see the smoke (nearly everytime I ride... although I must say I only notice the smoke when it's dark or early in the morning... in normal day-light you can't see if it's smoking or not) I awalys feel around touching everything near the front wheel, feeling for fluid and heat. The rotors are never too hot to touch with the bare hand. I've never felt the brake lever giving me feedback, or pulling against me either, or not that I've noticed. If you make it down next weekend John you can take it for a burn and see if you notice anything weird... being a more experienced rider than me, and more familiar with the ZXR (mechanically) you might pick up on something that I'm missing.

Where do I find the coolant, and how would I tell if there was a leak? And to be honest... I don't even know where the headers are (or what they look like). I've never even removed my farings... lol *is such a newbie*

Ixion

I'm seriously wondering about a wee bit leak frmm the fork drain screws (assuming that a ZZXR250 has such)

Mechanic noted that there was too much oil in the forks. So presumably that means he drained the forks ? And if the sealing washer on a drain plug was leaking very slowly, once in a while it would form a drop which would/could sometimes drip down onto the hot brake disc. I seem to remember (not sure though) that ATF smokes easily ? (Anyone ? Mr Motu, you must have set fire to some in your time ? )

And you wouldn't notice the loss. And if the drip actually formed on the tip of the plug (as it would) a mechanic wouldn't notice it unless he happened to look just as it was about to drip off (unlikely). It's not like the smear from leaking seals.

Nice theory anyway, pity my theories seldom survive contact with reality. I gotta keep away from that place it doesn't agree with me.

I'm not sure if the mechanic drained the oil from the forks. They gave me a print out of what they did in the service (I'll look for it tonight) and in the Notes section it just said something along the lines of "too much oil in front forks". It didn't say wether it had been drained or not.

*is learning a lot today *

[Edit] What do you mean by housing?

[loosebruce]

Hey sorry i didn't really rear through all the posts, but i have a free day tomorrow and sunday, but work the nights, may be going riding, maybe not, if you want to bring it round to my place, i'll be more than happy take a look at it for you and or tell you what parts you will need to get and then fit them for you. Could be a number of things and Kawaka parts aren't all that cheap either.
Saves paying labour and waiting for a week for it to be done.

Give me a call anytime, if i'm too busy or on my bike leave a message and i'll get back to you.

Bruce 021-2236081

[placidfemme]

Hey sorry i didn't really rear through all the posts, but i have a free day tomorrow and sunday, but work the nights, may be going riding, maybe not, if you want to bring it round to my place, i'll be more than happy take a look at it for you and or tell you what parts you will need to get and then fit them for you. Could be a number of things and Kawaka parts aren't all that cheap either.
Saves paying labour and waiting for a week for it to be done.

Give me a call anytime, if i'm too busy or on my bike leave a message and i'll get back to you.

Bruce 021-2236081

Thank you for your offer, at the moment we're not really sure what the problem is, I think the only free time I have this weekend will be on Sunday Afternoon. Do you live out west? Anyway I'll give you a buzz on Sunday if I get home early enough (Heading out to Riverhead for a BBQ)

[John]

I awalys feel around touching everything near the front wheel, feeling for fluid and heat. The rotors are never too hot to touch with the bare hand.

Ok now that you say this is leads me to beleave that maybe nothing wrong with the braking system, you know that big 'hole' behind the front wheel? there will be a funny looking thing with a grill on it, this is the radiator, feel around it WHEN ITS COLD!!! (it will hurt otherwise) for leaks, the headers are the 4 black pipes that you see behind them, look at them and see if there are any big noticible holes..

Where do I find the coolant, and how would I tell if there was a leak? And to be honest... I don't even know where the headers are (or what they look like). I've never even removed my farings... lol *is such a newbie*

The coolant containor (where you put the coolant mixture and water) is behind the right rear fairing, you can see it just when you take the rear seat off, make sure it has enought coolant in it, if you missed the previous bit the headers are the 4 big tubes (black ones) behind the front wheel...

[John]

Hey sorry i didn't really rear through all the posts, but i have a free day tomorrow and sunday, but work the nights, may be going riding, maybe not, if you want to bring it round to my place, i'll be more than happy take a look at it for you and or tell you what parts you will need to get and then fit them for you. Could be a number of things and Kawaka parts aren't all that cheap either.
Saves paying labour and waiting for a week for it to be done.

Give me a call anytime, if i'm too busy or on my bike leave a message and i'll get back to you.

Bruce 021-2236081

Good ole bruce what a legend