Cyclist accidents v motorcycle accidents

[MSTRS:Me]

Policing 100% concentration 100% of the time is far, far more important than speed, alcohol or noisy exhausts in my opinion.

In an ideal world. But in the real world, how does a cop gauge concentration? By the driver simply having their eyes open?

[Katman]

In an ideal world. But in the real world, how does a cop gauge concentration? By the driver simply having their eyes open?

Exactly - it can't be policed.

That's why instead of focusing on the poor driving of other road users around us we need to focus on our ability to ensure our safety.

[jellywrestler]

Exactly - it can't be policed.

That's why instead of focusing on the poor driving of other road users around us we need to focus on our ability to ensure our safety.

they're not focusing on poor driving cause it's too much hassle and costs to much/doesn't bring in money
give out a ticket for a vague offence and it's often taken to court taking the cop off the road to defend it etc. They'd rather use a machine that negates the need for them to be in court.
I support this idea, but make it that machine a camera so they can record all sorts of offences instead of brainwashing everyone that speed is the evil.
they could even sell footage for tv programs and also people would get to see themselves what their driving is like plus we'd have some sort of supervision on police chases, sorry fleeing drivers

[shrub]

In an ideal world. But in the real world, how does a cop gauge concentration? By the driver simply having their eyes open?

Every day I see people not giving it 100% - turning to talk to their passenger, eating, playing with the stereo etc. But they're not speeding, so are completely safe (in their eyes at least).

But you're right, it's a hard one to police and banning talking to passengers would not go down well even though I understand driver inattention is the single biggest cause of crashes. Maybe a campaign promoting awareness?

[shrub]

Exactly - it can't be policed.

That's why instead of focusing on the poor driving of other road users around us we need to focus on our ability to ensure our safety.

But I already do focus on my ability. I can't do any more than I already am, so I think it's entirely reasonable to expect other people to lift their game too.

[PrincessBandit]

...........so I think it's entirely reasonable to expect other people to lift their game too.

But not necessarily a safe thing to do.

[shrub]

But not necessarily a safe thing to do.

What's not safe about expecting TPTB to police dangerous driving or to demand that they engage in a process of educating people about paying attention when they drive? I won't ride any the less carefully, but it might just save the life of the noob who doesn't have the experience I have; or more importantly it might just save me from the unavoidable crash (and yes, some crashes are unavoidable).

Why should I be the only person who drives carefully?

[The Stranger:Me]

I like the excuses... As if that mitigates the act.

Perhaps excuses don't, but flashers, now they're a different story. You can perform any illegal act provided you have your flashers on.
It's in the road code apparently.

[Hitcher]

You can perform any illegal act provided you have your flashers on.
It's in the road code apparently.

Riding an unregistered motorcycle the wrong way down a motorway, minus a helmet? I think not. "Apparently" claiming something is in the Road Code is unlikely to work for you in a Court of Law.

[MarkH]

Riding an unregistered motorcycle the wrong way down a motorway, minus a helmet? I think not. "Apparently" claiming something is in the Road Code is unlikely to work for you in a Court of Law.

That doesn't sound like the sort of thing you are likely to need to worry about a court of law for. And if you do you are pretty darned lucky.

[Mudfart]

"The consequences from conviction far outweigh the alledged serious nature of the perpetrated crime", apparently is all you need to say. Its been used twice now, once by a top rugby player who beat his wife.

[baptist]

Every day I see people not giving it 100% - turning to talk to their passenger, eating, playing with the stereo etc. But they're not speeding, so are completely safe (in their eyes at least).

But you're right, it's a hard one to police and banning talking to passengers would not go down well even though I understand driver inattention is the single biggest cause of crashes. Maybe a campaign promoting awareness?

I came close to being the victim of the worlds slowest off the other day in Henderson High Street. I was at the front of the line at a red light pedestrian crossing. A guy gets in the car parked in the bay nearest the crossing and starts to pull out to do a U turn before traffic gets a green light. He is looking at the cars that will be coming towards him and in his side mirror... not out his window at me, I wheel my bike back (as far as I could) and turn the bars and hit the horn... then he sees me... but completes the manouver missing me in the end by about a metre. If I had not moved he would have slowly bowled me.

Is that in attention, stupidity or just ignorance? How can you say you did not see the bike when a) you just walked past it to get in the car b) I am only a car width away from your window.

[Voltaire]

I rode my pushbike to work yesterday for a bit of exercise, 14kms...down Dominion Road.

my observations were:

Visy vests ....? are they like a cloak of invisibility?

Most drivers were 'focused' on getting to work/home

You really need a rear view mirror on a push bike

Theres quite a lot of scooters using bus lanes

I don't think I'd be keen on riding on the open road

Not much protection in a pair of shorts and a t shirt.

[shrub]

Is that in attention, stupidity or just ignorance? How can you say you did not see the bike when a) you just walked past it to get in the car b) I am only a car width away from your window.

I would say that the car driver in question did 'see' you, just didn't notice you. I believe that in the overwhelming majority of SMIDSY events the car driver concerned did see the bike, but didn't notice them, so didn't change their actions.

I simply cannot believe that human eyes and brains are incapable of seeing a moving object approx. 1.5 m tall by 1 metre wide with a shining light on it - right now I can see a sparrow sitting on a roof about 100m away and it has no lights on. Essentially human beings are motivated by fear or greed, and if they see something that is potentially a threat or to be desired they notice it - if 100 ordinary people walk past and one is a pretty girl in a bikini and one a big ugly Hells Angel, which ones will you notice? And when you buy something, have you ever noticed how often you now notice other people with what you bought? I believe so many of us get hit because people don't see us as having any significance by presenting a threat or being worth protecting, so while their eyes record us, their brain is not programmed to say "motorcyclist - pay attention, respond to him/her and don't pull out etc'.

I very, very rarely have to take evasive action on my bike, yet I do it all the time in my car, and I use my bike a hell of a lot more than the car which really only gets used to go to the gym and do the shopping. I put that down to a constant and focussed awareness of what car everyone else is doing, but also because I'm a big bastard (6ft3, 120 kgs) in black on a big, noisy black bike. Car drivers see me and when the image gets to their brain the brain says "threat, notice him and avoid him". When i worked in a bike shop I rode a lot of bikes, and I know from personal experience that when I rode 250s and even sports bikes, the behaviour of other road users degenerated. I see you describe your bike as a Yamaha nana putt putt - I wonder if the car driver would have seen you if you had been riding a Harley?

I don't think we should all put on weight, buy big bikes and wear black, and that's why I want to see TPTB trying to get the message through to our fellow road users that hitting us is dreadfully bad form and results in killing people. I want motorcyclists to be valued by other road users, but it's hard when we don't see that we have any right to demand that.

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

It may have been covered in the thread (havent read it all);
I dont believe the big problem to be your average bike commuter, its the arrogant lycra clad brigade that travel in packs.

The single commuter nips in and out of traffic and quite possibly is oblivious to what is behind and arround him/her.

The lycra brigade just buldozes there way through the traffic hogging the entire lane sometimes ignoring traffic lights and pedestrian crossings and all done in high density areas!

This morning, peak hour traffic at Point Chev (Auckland) must have been a dozen of them 3-4 abreast belting down great North road and they call motorcyclists tempory citizens