"Loud Pipes Save Lives"

[Lias]

they sound like a sack o' shit like most Mazdas and a few of the OC's bikes

Makes mental note to send a copy of this post to the OC's with yer home address in it :-P

[Big Dave]

I think that anything that turns the general public off bike riders can't be a good thing, unless you want to promulgate the "rebel biker' image.

Promulgate it?!?! - I dine out on it.

[Motu]

At one point I had 2 600cc road bikes - a 61 Norton with all the fruit and usualy running OPEN megaphones,the other bike was a BMW R60/5 with standard pipes,considered very quiet in those days.It was pretty obvious that the car drivers knew I was there on the Norton,even on the motorway you could see their ears swivle back,like a cat y'know and then they checked their mirrors,and I could hear the sigh of relief when I went past...a quick change down of a gear woke up anyone sitting at an intersection.

They never knew I was there on the R60/5,but that's ok,I ride as if they can't see me anyway....yeah,right.One sunday morning coming down the motorway with only one car in sight and my very pregnant wife on the back cruising at 80mph - as we pull up behind a car it just moves out into the outside lane,squeezing us into the concrete barrier,he didn't even see us until we were into front of him.Given the choice I'll have noise anyday...

[Hitcher]

Back when I had my Zrex, on a couple of occasions I noted drivers in cars ahead wind down their windows so they could hear me ride past. Lovely.

[Wolf]

if you beleive that applies in all situations, you need to do some more riding around town more my friend. The stupidity and plain old arrogance of pedestrians around Auckland CBD when faced with a quiet bike is nothing short of staggering on a regular basis (and thats not the cagers).

Besides... how do you then educate stupid pedestrians when they step out and don't see you without a loud exhaust to blast at them when they've walked in front of you? They all appear very alert after you inform them of how close you actually are by using the throttle

While pedestrians possibly rely more on sound cues than people in cars (windows up, Fifty Cent blaring thru the Sub in the boot) I still have to disagree - if I don't see the pedestrian in time to avoid him/her, that's my fault.

Of course, I could just be terribly inexperienced - I've only held my 'bike license for 23 years...

As to them hearing me - the horn seems to work wonders (if you ditch the shitty "canned fart" jap horn an put a decent one on) and with an electric bike there would be no engine noise at all to drown out my voice as I "educate" the pedestrian concerned... on road safety and his/her genealogy

[wkid_one]

I would assume that, and I know I will be corrected if wrong, most of the noise from a loud pipe is going to come AFTER you have passed the alledged 'inattentive' cage driver. I know my VTR whilst loud from the rear - wasn't too bad from the front unless it had shit to echo off - which is useless as this changes where the sounds is coming from and defeats the purpose of alerting people to my approach - get my point?

I would also say - that in many instances bike riders put themselves in positions where car drivers don't expect them to be (not saying they shouldn't check however). Many car drivers don't really appreciate how quick a bike is, and a cursary glance in the rear view mirror showing a bike a couple of hundred metres behind - that bike could be on the car 2-3-4 times quicker than they would expect. Also - few car drivers expect bikes to lane split (and in my experience, a minority take aggressive offence to it)

Also - many bikers cause their own problems by riding with their lights on full beam - which, when viewed head on or in rear/side view mirrors, distort a persons ability to estimate the speed the vehicle is travelling. So that supposed 'safety' of putting your lights on full beam, as been disproved as a crock of shit: NB: not the technical term the report used, it used - 'marginal if not diminishes safety margin depending on situation' (as well as being illegal if the gatso's were in a bad mood'.

I guess I am saying - that just cause your bike can do something - don't expect car drivers to know it can and react accordingly.

As for CK's comments about pedestrians - I don't think that matters in the CBD whether you are a biker or driver - I encounter the same problem in Wellington in an SUV

[Pwalo]

I like my bike's to be quiet (as much as any bike can be quiet). Cagers can't hear you (a/c means the windows are up, and the stereo's probably on as well), pedestrians don't pay attention anyway most of the time, and it's bloody tiring if you have to travel any distance on a noisy bike.

If you want a loud pipe on your bike that's fine, but I think you should be honest enough to say it's because you like it rather than claim it's a safety feature. Personally I prefer the stealthy approach.

[chickenfunkstar]

Whilst I do give merit to the point that:
"If you've put yourself in a position where someone has to see [hear] you in order for you to be safe -- to see [hear] you, and to give a f**k -- you've already blown it."

There are still some circumstances where you have to put yourself in a certain amount of danger to get where you're going.
When you're passing cars on the motorway, often cars wont bother to look properly whats behind them, they'll just indicate (maybe) and move into your lane. Surley this is a circumstance where a loud exhaust would be a saftey feature.

It also makes overtaking on the open road and lanesplitting a whole lot easier.

Whilst its true that a car will hear most of the noise once you've passed them, they will still hear quite a bit of it when you're behind them.

IMHO anything that makes people more aware of you on the road isn't a bad thing.

[vifferman]

While pedestrians possibly rely more on sound cues than people in cars (windows up, Fifty Cent blaring thru the Sub in the boot) I still have to disagree - if I don't see the pedestrian in time to avoid him/her, that's my fault.

Of course, I could just be terribly inexperienced - I've only held my 'bike license for 23 years...

As to them hearing me - the horn seems to work wonders .

I have experience of this (although I've run over only one pedestrian).
Was it my fault? Legally - no. But with the wisdom of hindsight, I could've prevented it, even if only by leaving 30 seconds later.

I saw the pedestrians. I waited. I proceeded with care.
I tootled my horn melodiously, causing all but one of the pedestrians to retreat to the relative safety of the footlingpath. Now we have one pedestrian to deal with, halfway across the road.
I continue slowlyish, around behind the pedestrian (i.e., the opposite direction to where she was headed). Just as I'm nearly past, she stops (why? did someone call to her, or did she decide belatedly that crossing on a red when the light's turning green is a dumb idea?). I brake, she turns around (away from me - if she'd turned towards me, she'd have been safe), and walks/runs/jumps (can't remember now) into my path. BAM!!
Pedestrian 0, VFR750 1.


Ahhh! Now it clicks! My bike at that time was not loud, although it had very loud hornS.

Luckily, no lives were lost in the making of this (true) story.

[GSVR]

Out in the country on a windy piece of road a loud bike is certainly going to be safer than something that you can't hardly hear until it rounds the corner and you make visual contact.

But noisey bikes or cars around residential streets is dam annoying.

[vifferman]

But noisey bikes or cars around residential streets is dam annoying.

Especially if they're YOUR streets.
Oddly enough, I don't find my noisy bike quite so annoying in other people's streets.

[chickenfunkstar]

Out in the country on a windy piece of road a loud bike is certainly going to be safer than something that you can't hardly hear until it rounds the corner and you make visual contact.

But noisey bikes or cars around residential streets is dam annoying.

I do try to keep it as quiet as I can around residential streets ( most of the time ), particularly at night.

[Wolf]

I do try to keep it as quiet as I can around residential streets ( most of the time ), particularly at night.

I used to feel really stink if I was riding home late at night on the old TS - I used to hear the echoes coming back off the houses and wonder what the poor bastards inside must be thinking/feeling. I was trying to be as quiet as possible - scarcely more than idling, which probably only prolonged their pain - perhaps it would have been better to rev the arse off the bike and go like hell so that they'd only get a short blast of intensely painful noise...

[Ixion]

..
There are still some circumstances where you have to put yourself in a certain amount of danger to get where you're going.
When you're passing cars on the motorway, often cars wont bother to look properly whats behind them, they'll just indicate (maybe) and move into your lane. Surley this is a circumstance where a loud exhaust would be a saftey feature.

..

Whilst its true that a car will hear most of the noise once you've passed them, they will still hear quite a bit of it when you're behind them.

...

Actually it is probably quite good in the situation which worries me the most. Which is when they try to move into where you are while you are actually BESIDE them (sometimes even level with their window). And sometimes in traffic you can't avoid having to ride beside a car (or truck, bus).

In that case they would hear a loud bike, because even if you were a bit behind their seat, the echo effect off the side of the car would carry the exhaust sound.

[chickenfunkstar]

Actually it is probably quite good in the situation which worries me the most. Which is when they try to move into where you are while you are actually BESIDE them (sometimes even level with their window). And sometimes in traffic you can't avoid having to ride beside a car (or truck, bus).

In that case they would hear a loud bike, because even if you were a bit behind their seat, the echo effect off the side of the car would carry the exhaust sound.

I agree completly.
I'll try and avoid travelling directly beside a car on the motorway if I can, but passing other cars (i.e. travelling directly beside them) is nearly unavoidable on the motorway.

I kind of got the impression from the artical by Mr Tank that he didn't approve of people using loud pipes as a substitute for riding defensively.
Fair enough, but the two things aren't mutually exclusive.
I think people riding like idiots would "result in greater prejudice and discrimination against motorcycling" more than poeple who rode with loud exhausts.

I think riding defensively on a bike with a loud exhaust would be safer than riding defensively on a bike with a quiet exhaust.