Lost in the rush

[warewolf]

In today's The Australian, "Lost in the rush"

A scathing commentary on road "safety" policing in Australia. Parallels with NZ??

[vifferman]

Verrrrrrrrrry interesting!
Thanks Colin.

[Monsterbishi]

That article is just about the biggest pile of steaming BS I've ever wandered across!

I'm thinking of how to respond to it without writing a document of equal length, and it comes down to this.

I'm a STMS - A traffic management supervisor, one of the dudes who drive the trucks with the crash pads on the back, and control the traffic when the crap hits the fan on the roads.

Weekends and holidays are considerably more dangerous periods than weekdays, that's when our callout phones go off the most. Christmas is so bad that we halt all new roadworks from Mid-Dec to Mid-Jan and even then it's madness.

Speeding and/or drink driving are components in just about every serious or fatal accident we attend, it's not rocket science to figure that if you remove those variables, things will be a lot more pleasant on the road.

You can't use Australia as a guide for anything regarding NZ road safety, we're light years behind them in terms of safety, they have a population 5 times greater than our own, yet their road roll is only three times more than ours.

New Zealanders need to slow down, it's that simple, we have a mentality here that since the police use a 10kph tolerance on speeding that it's ok to drive 9kph over the limit, all the time. So you save 45 seconds from your trip, catch up the the next queue of traffic so you have to stop for the lights, and double the chances of killing a pedestrian if you hit one.

If I was to make a list of causes of serious accidents it would start like this:

1. Speed
2. Alcohol
3. Fatigue
4. Inattention
5. Mechanical

[Ixion]

Uh huh. And the top speed of a Yamaha 750 is ? When do you trade it in on a Scorpio ? Cos they'll break the speed limit y'know.

[warewolf]

That article is just about the biggest pile of steaming BS I've ever wandered across!

Opinion or fact? He's just analysing the roading authorities' own numbers.

Christmas is so bad that we halt all new roadworks from Mid-Dec to Mid-Jan and even then it's madness.

Granted NZ probably has a bigger xmas peak of road usage.

Speeding and/or drink driving are components

Do you know this as a fact, or are you toeing the party line? Most accidents are not properly analysed, and the people filling in the paperwork are highly likely to toe the party line and tick the speeding box thus justifying their own policies - Ouroboros. It's even worse for bikes due to the lack of trained, certified motorcycle crash investigators (last I heard there were none in the country). Therefore you can't use the gov't numbers that blame speeding as a cause of a crash... GIGO.

You can't use Australia as a guide for anything regarding NZ road safety,

Of course you can, don't be ridiculous. Do you think that physics is different over there? Anatomy? (Don't answer that!) It may not map 1-to-1 but you can certainly use it as a guide. Just don't blindly follow. To that end, how's about getting rid of that kamikaze left-turn-right-turn rule that Victoria introduced (erroneously, they've since revoked it) and NZ copied and still persist with in the face of all the evidence internationally?

New Zealanders need to slow down, it's that simple, we have a mentality here that since the police use a 10kph tolerance on speeding that it's ok to drive 9kph over the limit, all the time.

And who's to blame for that one? The roading authorities, as pointed out in the article. You constantly have the state saying "100km/h is OK, 101km/h we'll pwn your arse!" thereby absolving the driver of personal responsibility. "I can drive like shit as long as it is 100km/h or lower." Good driving is not enforced nor encouraged; the holy grail of speeding revenue is persecuted with a vengeance, all other sins are ignored (except alcohol, which has a solid argument).

[Usarka]

If I was to make a list of causes of serious accidents it would start like this:

1. Speed
2. Alcohol
3. Fatigue
4. Inattention
5. Mechanical

You must have a clean brain! Sounds like it's been well washed.

IMHO poor driving is the number one cause - inability to control a vehicle and/or make sound and safe decisions.

The others are merely factors.

[Littleman]

Uh huh. And the top speed of a Yamaha 750 is ? When do you trade it in on a Scorpio ? Cos they'll break the speed limit y'know.

In your case it's 4. Inattention, where you've missed the point.

Most bikes can exceed the speed limit. Just because he owns one that can, does not make his veiws any less valid.

[Katman]

IMHO poor driving is the number one cause - inability to control a vehicle and/or make sound and safe decisions.

Dead right - as is poor motorcycle riding.

[vifferman]

Weekends and holidays are considerably more dangerous periods than weekdays, that's when our callout phones go off the most. Christmas is so bad that we halt all new roadworks from Mid-Dec to Mid-Jan and even then it's madness.

Quelle surprise!
Could it be that there might be a lot more people on the road then, and that they're all anxious to get somewhere, and that many of them are tired and/or hungover from the end-of-year functions?

You can't use Australia as a guide for anything regarding NZ road safety, we're light years behind them in terms of safety, they have a population 5 times greater than our own, yet their road roll is only three times more than ours.

Neither can you.
What's the ratio of cars/km in each country?

If I was to make a list of causes of serious accidents it would start like this:

1. Speed
2. Alcohol
3. Fatigue
4. Inattention
5. Mechanical

In my opinion, the REAL list would read like this:
1. Extremely poor attitude to the very serious business of driving.
2. Poor basic skills.
3. Impaired mental/physical condition due to alcohol and/or drugs and/or tiredness and/or other distractions.

The results of these would be:
1. Excessive speed for the conditions, coupled with allowing insufficient distance to other vehicles, coupled with poor decision making.
2. Failure to allow for changes in conditions or potential hazards (including weather, crap road conditions, mechanical faults, other drivers' poor driving).

[Ixion]

Not at all. Someone who runs a machine capable of in excess of double the speed limit , but condemns others for exceeding it does not command much credbility.

And I never believe those folk who possess high performance machines and claim "oh but I never use it". Yeah, right. Tui , anyone.

Someone on a GN250 who says "I never break the speed limit, and I condemn those that do", I will accept this views as valid (wrong, but valid).

But someone who never rides at > 100kph, yet has a bike capable of double that is either running with both the hare and the hounds, or a poser. He either does himself exceed 100kph , while condemning others for it; or he wants observers to think he does.

[scumdog]

You must have a clean brain! Sounds like it's been well washed.

IMHO poor driving is the number one cause - inability to control a vehicle and/or make sound and safe decisions.

The others are merely factors.

So the fact the 'poor driving' (i.e. those who has no abilty to control a vehicle and or make sound and safe decisions) may be caused by pissed/tired/stoned drivers is not worth taking into account?

It's like saying somebody died from lack of oxygen to the brain when they've actually had their head cut off.

[Monsterbishi]

Opinion or fact? He's just analysing the roading authorities' own numbers.

He's analysing numbers to form his opinion, and I'm actually out there seeing it first hand to form my own.

Uh huh. And the top speed of a Yamaha 750 is ? When do you trade it in on a Scorpio ? Cos they'll break the speed limit y'know.

Your point being that since a vehicle can break the speed limit, that it should be expected to?

[Usarka]

So the fact the 'poor driving' (i.e. those who has no abilty to control a vehicle and or make sound and safe decisions) may be caused by pissed/tired/stoned drivers is not worth taking into account?

It's like saying somebody died from lack of oxygen to the brain when they've actually had their head cut off.

They fall into the "inability to make sound and safe decisions" category.

It's almost a 1:1 correlation between stupidity and drunk driving though, so it's not worth arguing.

What is worth arguing is that speed is inhernently unsafe and poor driving does not cause serious accidents.

Using your example, you're saying that if the person was drunk then alcohol would have been the cause of their death. Not the fact that they chose to fuck around with an axe while pissed and chopped their head off.

[Matt_TG]

Thanks for your views Monsterbishi.

Good going most of the respondents.... I just love how one cannot voice their own experiences around here without other's jumping down their throats, especially the "I am the uber biker and will travel and what speed I like, for as long as I like and drink when I like" brigade.

Get your head out of the sand guys. Speed does kill, so does drinking and driving. They are all too often ingredients in what turns out to be a bloody mess on our roads.

Before you get all antzy, it's not only bikes that are targeted, but cars and trucks too. Think about the Police efforts as one less speeding drunk driver heading your way on the wrong side of the road in his car, rather than what you perceive as an attack on your fine motorcycling skillz. It's not always about you..

[scumdog]

Using your example, if the person was drunk then alcohol would have been the cause of their death.

I gained the impression Mr Ixion would not agree with you however I do, he on the other hand would blame the poor driving component for the cause of death.