Hardcore Biker
So you'd be very well aware that MNZ supplied EVERY MEMBER CLUB an approved noise meter, WITH instructions on how to use it, in an effort to cap the problem before it got worse ? and you'd be just as well aware that the reason you've never been noise tested is that most Clubs have either low numbers of helpers at meetings, therefore not enought to DO the testing, or simply dont give a shit ?Originally Posted by ktm84mxc
Forum whore
MNZ have submitted to the Department of Labour on the "REVIEW OF RISK MANAGEMENT AND SAFETY IN THE ADVENTURE AND OUTDOOR COMMERCIAL SECTORS IN NEW ZEALAND 2009/10" in an effort to ensure that voluntary organisations such as MNZ Clubs were excluded from any changed regulations. See this link for the latest update on this; http://www.dol.govt.nz/news/adventur...on-may2011.asp
For those who are MNZ club members, ask your club about the presentation given at this years MNZ AGM on Trail Rides as this should at least be accurate "hearsay". As for consulting clubs such as Waitemata on Trail Rides, Waitemata and many others have been and are still involved on moves to improve MNZ Trail Rides.
Paul Searancke
Recreation/Leisure CommissionerMNZ[/QUOTE]
OH dear..., sorry but its the Dept of Labour as well as ACC. But its the same thing. It affects all trail bike users!! Here is your quote.
Unless you are a MNZ member then you are in the dark. And to quote in an effort to ensure [B]that voluntary organisations such as MNZ Clubs were excluded from any changed regulations
So what you are saying is that if we are not MNZ then we have to go through changes but if we are affliated with MNZ then all is sweet...
See thats the point. There are only a few of thou MNZ members. Not every trail bike rider in NZ is a member of MNZ!!
We have 3 x amount of riders on our data base alone, twice as good a safety record of MNZ (0.0025%)and yet no dialogue, no consultation, no stake holder involvement from day one!! and we are only one full time commercial operator.
If it wasn't for the likes the commercial operators there would be no Suzuki Berm Buster, Leart 4 Hours, Honda 6 Hrs, Desert Storms, Woodhill 2 Mans, Sandpit Motorbike Park, Kimmy's, Power Adventures, plus all the trail rides we all put on.
Talking of which what effect will any changes have on the wider community. Motorcycle distributors, Importers etc. Have you had dialogue with them?
To be open and transparent we need as a community some communication, this would be appreciated.
Paul, I have asked you for updates and involvement over the last 6 months and these have never been forth coming.
In fact you have ignored our requests.
Am I wrong to ask question?
Old & unwise
Thanks Paul for commenting, though I have to say I am confused, I've never met you, but I know Scotty & I know Tony ( ktmboy ).
They are both saying there is a proposal for a rider license which would involve ACC, yet you are saying this is not the case.
Fundamentally I think if MNZ want to do something with their member clubs or create advisories etc, then doing such a thing in it's process is obviously fine.
But if it's something that impacts every recreational/sporting Off Road Rider in NZ, I believe that process needs to be very open, otherwise even good intentions are susceptible to mis-interpretation.
I believe it'd be a good start for the KiwiRider article to be published on the net, but further to that something as significant as this really needs regular public updates with the opportunity for people to comment, in order that
A) People don't feel ambushed.
B) Vested interests can make their feelings known.
C) Other potentially impacted organisations can comment ( A DirtBike license involving ACC has implications for other codes ).
D) There are not unintended consequences. No-one thinks of everything & the more input the less potential likely issues have not been considered.
Hardcore Biker
Yes Budda I'm well aware of the equipment sent to MNZ clubs we use the same gear & also have ours recalibrated every 6mths.
Here's an idea at all Trail Rides collect a petition at sign on allowing the organisers to contact/adjudicate on the riders behalf in regards to ACC/DoL matters.
Can any 1 tell me why bike scrutineering went out off practice at events?
Forum whore
So you have in fact been communicating with ACC about the risk management benefits of MNZ involvment in trail rides. In what capacity was this advice given and what was the purpose of this engagement with ACC? What outcome were both MNZ and ACC seeking in gathering this information?
And for the record I am not against an ACC levy, or a set of national standards for commercial trail rides and trail parks, what I am concerned about is the fact that if these discussions are taking place, then the significant majority of the fee-paying trail riders, as well as commercial trail operators in NZ are being kept in the dark about it. Why?
Forum whore
one of the reason's was that you were accepting the bike was safe, and it was said that you may be held responsibile if a bike malfunction casused an injury, there was debate at the time if this was true,
and i would hardly start holding Ardmore as the bastion of saftey and well run events,
John's and others work to keep the place open is awesome, and to say no other clubs have been sound testing is bullshit, the fact you keep you bikes good and have not been tested, nor races an NZ MX event where everybike had to be checked before racing is done,
Pukekohe has told noisy bikes to go home, or repack there mufflers,
I think this issue has been blown up due to the unreported nature of it, and it is not that new, some people have been working on it for a while, Tony is right, MNZ do not speak for the entire off road recreation community, but it is up to the others to do that as well,
Forum whore
I remember a number of years ago the bike shop I worked at had a tent set up at the Desert Storm event to do minor repairs.
The number of bikes that were wheeled into the tent, even before the event got underway, with shot wheel bearings or non-existent brake pads was appalling.
I shudder to think, if we had not been there available to do the repairs, what state many of the bikes would have been riding around in.
Forum whore
Just a wee thought from an outsider.
What would an "off road licence" do as far as kids are concerned? Lots of children (well, under 16s) ride off road. It's often (AFAIK) a sort of family affair.
Can't see bureaucrats taking the idea of a licence to ride a motor vehicle and NOT putting age restrictions on it. And I'd bet they'd not not be low.
In fact, a very logical development would be simply to tie the off road licence to the road licence.
Dunno anything about the ins and outs of the off road scene, but I do have some experience of the sneaky slimy ways of bureaucrats. And the even sneakier and slimier ways of ACC.
Taniwha victim
Yup, that's a something me and krad were chatting about. If there was an age restriction (hopefully this is one of those 'it'd never happen' scenarios...) it would kill NZs chances internationally...All those top guys, like Birchy seem to start riding when they're 3 or 4. Can you imagine if no-one could ride until they were 15...Everyone would be registering their kid's mx bikes as farm bikes and the shops would have to sell their minis as novelty items.
Tearing Choppa a new A'Hole
My theory is that if a bike is formally scrutineered, passes, then suffers a mechanical failure causing injury or worse, there's the risk a scrutineer could be hauled through the mud during an inquest or some such proccedure. Who the fuck would volunteer for that job? Far easier to make each competitor sign that by competing, their machine is therefore prepared in a safe fashion for the task at hand.
Vote David Bain for MNZ president
Hardcore Biker
Opps not to offend you scott but I asked the question based on my experience's, Did I say all tracks don't noise test ? Do you test noise bikes with a meter or by ear ?
I have never put Ardmore up as a bastion of compliance in regards to safety we can all look back & say we cud have done it better.
With 30yrs off roading I've gained a little knowledge about how things work or don't.
This is a FORUM which implies a discussion of differing views on a given topic if we all agreed we wouldn't be on here.
Bored Room
I used to do some of the MR rides with my son until I injured my back at work installing heatpumps ( self employed) and ACC said it was age related.....odd seeing the Chiropractor I go to has sorted it out....after wasting my time at Physio.
I also do skiing and we all wear helmets although they are optional, and I feel safer skiing than riding on the road.
I don't have a problem with " User Pays" but I do have a problem paying for the same thing multiple times. Whats next an ACC card where you tick all the activities you do and they charge accordingly?
I lived in Ireland for a couple of years and you pay insurance when the kids go on school trips...and they closed the skating rink down due to high insurance costs...
DeMyer's Laws - an argument that consists primarily of rambling quotes isn't worth bothering with.
Hardcore Biker
On scrutineering a bike I understand the view you cud be held liable if the bike fails causing injury to the rider. If you informed the rider of its faults & still let it compete with the resulting incident injuring/damaging a 3rd party wud you still be liable?
The same cud apply to Off road tracks eg is that tree to close to the track, blind brow/jump, how deep is the river/swamp.
Imagine a safety audit on a trail ride loop of 50+ km's.
Forum whore
you will find although we do not do the list like some sectors do, a saftey audit should be part of every track markers thoughts, the term the department of labour uses is something that you would not expect to be there, a tree you can see is something you expect, a fallen tree hidden over a brow is something that should be marked,
duty of care is another interesting item, and there is big difference between a club run event, and a promotor run event, now there is a lot of mixing of this dymanic in our sport,
The instructions are simple...
Not sure if this is right, or not, but I heard a different side to this saga today.
There could be a chicken/egg thing going on...in that MNZ got wind of mutterings ex ACC re imposing levies on trail ride participants. This is now happening in Oz. In an effort to 'control' the amount/outcome of any such levy imposition MNZ have now involved themselves in the process.
So are MNZ really just trying in increase their income, or do they have rider's best interests at heart?
Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?
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