bike positioning on the road.

[Beemer]

The main problem with keeping as far to the left as practicable (as per the regulations) is that it gives drivers an opening to share your lane. If you are in a car and over to the left, fine, you still take up a large proportion of the lane, but if you are on a bike, the minute you move to the left, some tosser in a car usually takes that as an invitation to pass you - if you are going slow enough that this is a feasible option! And can you imagine a cop pulling someone up for riding to the left in a group (staggered formation)? I can't see it ever happening, unless the rider is sitting on the centre line - which I have seen done, unfortunately!

When I learned to ride, I was told to 'command my lane' - in other words, make sure anyone following me knew it was MY space. I've followed that rule and had no problems, but you alter your line according to the conditions and the traffic around you. As for sitting to the outside of the right or left of a vehicle, one wrong move and you'd be in the path of oncoming traffic or off the road.

The difference between a new rider and one with more experience is that the more experienced riders tend NOT to sit behind a car unless they have to - they pass it and gain some space around them. If you are in heavy traffic or on a windy road with double yellows or similar, make sure the car in front and the car behind you can see you. Don't follow too closely is more important than where you position yourself - always give yourself an escape route. If the guy in front suddenly stops or changes direction, you need to be able to avoid hitting him - something your road position alone isn't always going to give you.

I like Ixion's idea of changing your position every now and then when following a car, so the driver doesn't 'forget' you are there. I don't know whether it is my headlights or what, but I usually find most drivers move as far to the left as they can in order to let me pass - which is very much appreciated, but I wish they would take a look at the road ahead before they do it! No way am I keen to overtake on the brow of a hill or on a tight road in case someone's over the line when I do so - so thanks, but I'm not always going to take advantage of the offer!

[sunhuntin]

im a new rider, and i tend to keep closer to the white line where possible. unlike my dad who rides in the freaking cycle lanes [annoyed me no end!!] i went out on the open road a while back, and us l-platers cant go faster than 70k. i had a row of cars behind me, but due to the road [lots of corners] i kept the the centre to prevent them from attempting to pass.

[James Deuce]

Jim --Nothing new here --As I understand it it has always been a legal requirement to drive as far to the left as practicably possible.
If that was enforced to the letter of the law a shit load of cagers would be getting tickets--well at least where I live they would.
In 27 years of road riding I've never been pulled over for riding in the wrong wheel track

It is new. It never used to be worth demerit points. When they upped the number of "demeritable" offences from 15 to 33 recently, that was one they added to the list.

[James Deuce]

im a new rider, and i tend to keep closer to the white line where possible. unlike my dad who rides in the freaking cycle lanes [annoyed me no end!!] i went out on the open road a while back, and us l-platers cant go faster than 70k. i had a row of cars behind me, but due to the road [lots of corners] i kept the the centre to prevent them from attempting to pass.

a. You're not invulnerable. Some psycho will run you over one day.

b. You do that to me when I'm in the car, and I'll fill in one of those dob in forms. If you are holding a queue of traffic up, get the hell out of the way at the earliest opportunity. People with your attitude cause accidents and death far more often than "speeding" does.

c. You're an idiot. It's not a right to use public roads it's a privilege.

[James Deuce]

most of the time I dont wait long enough to sit behind any cars so I use the whole road... but when I do, I stick to the left and fair distance behind (four tyres and 1500kg stop a whole lot faster than 2" of front wheel bike rubber.)

Performance bikes proved the "Cars brake better than bikes" statement to be a lie about 4 years ago. Against a car with ABS, Yaw control, and traction control, a Honda Valkyrie will stop quicker in the wet than the car, if (big if there) the rider knows what they are doing. If I can find the mag I will send you a copy so you can see how they achieved even better feats with more sporting tackle. There is much more to braking than contact patch.

[monster]

Good on u 4 sharing the knowledge, Frosty. I agree it's not a good place to ride, so imagine my surprise when the AA test instructor gave me a lecture, for not keeping as far practacable (sp?) to the left of the lane. Against primal feminine instinct, I held my tongue. I can still taste the blood. And I got my bit of paper. But it is mental. Works for a car. Not for us. So newbies -claim your lane. Unless your sitting your test....

[N4CR]

Considering the motorcycle road code says exactly what Frosty says.... I don't think the cops can enforce that rule on bikes (yes I know it aint a legal document etc) without some big scrap in court.

I have been infront of/behind you name it cops in the right wheel track many times and they havn't even looked at me as of late. I think they use discretion... this rule might be more for the FRIGGEN HORSEFLOATS OF DOOM that hold every one up in clevedon in the weekends... very often they never ever pull over and hog all of the road

[Magua]

The main problem with keeping as far to the left as practicable (as per the regulations) is that it gives drivers an opening to share your lane. If you are in a car and over to the left, fine, you still take up a large proportion of the lane, but if you are on a bike, the minute you move to the left, some tosser in a car usually takes that as an invitation to pass you - if you are going slow enough that this is a feasible option!

I had a few scary moments like that when I first started riding. A car would take up position next to me in my lane.

[Ixion]

Considering the motorcycle road code says exactly what Frosty says.... I don't think the cops can enforce that rule on bikes (yes I know it aint a legal document etc) without some big scrap in court.

I have been infront of/behind you name it cops in the right wheel track many times and they havn't even looked at me as of late. I think they use discretion... this rule might be more for the FRIGGEN HORSEFLOATS OF DOOM that hold every one up in clevedon in the weekends... very often they never ever pull over and hog all of the road

Blurdy HORSEFLOATS. Don't mention horsefloats. I got stuck behind one of the bastiges today. And, yes, at Clevedon. Prick, hogged the whole lane, and when I essayed a tentative move to overtake, he pulled to the right. So I had to follow him at 40kph into Clevedon. We hatessssss horsefloats. Hatesssssss them we does. Nasssssssty

[Posh Tourer :P]

Good on u 4 sharing the knowledge, Frosty. I agree it's not a good place to ride, so imagine my surprise when the AA test instructor gave me a lecture, for not keeping as far practacable (sp?) to the left of the lane. Against primal feminine instinct, I held my tongue. I can still taste the blood. And I got my bit of paper. But it is mental. Works for a car. Not for us. So newbies -claim your lane. Unless your sitting your test....

I had the same comment on my test. Explained I was more visible and there was less crap on the roads. He asked me if that was just my opinion, and I said something about how I heard it from Institute of Advanced Motorcycle Riding book....

I kinda made up the title a little bit, but he seemed happy....

[Posh Tourer :P]

a. You're not invulnerable. Some psycho will run you over one day.

b. You do that to me when I'm in the car, and I'll fill in one of those dob in forms. If you are holding a queue of traffic up, get the hell out of the way at the earliest opportunity. People with your attitude cause accidents and death far more often than "speeding" does.

c. You're an idiot. It's not a right to use public roads it's a privilege.

I would do the same as sunhuntin and pull over when it is reasonable to do so. I dont want to let 15 cars rush past me forcing me into the gravel because I am doing a slower speed than they are. People tend to take a mile if you give them an inch. I'd wait to give them the mile when I'm ready thanks.....

Remember there was a discaimer about twisty road etc. No-one said anything about spiteful road hogging, more an aspect of self preservation....

[monster]

I had the same comment on my test. Explained I was more visible and there was less crap on the roads. He asked me if that was just my opinion, and I said something about how I heard it from Institute of Advanced Motorcycle Riding book....

I kinda made up the title a little bit, but he seemed happy....

Good response! Nice.

My AA 'testicle' and I just weren't really feeling each other that day. I walked up to his door at one stage of the test, and his window fell out. He fixed it, and didn't try to wind it down again for the rest of the test. But that pretty much sums him up. I probably shouldn't have laughed.

[Beemer]

im a new rider, and i tend to keep closer to the white line where possible. unlike my dad who rides in the freaking cycle lanes [annoyed me no end!!] i went out on the open road a while back, and us l-platers cant go faster than 70k. i had a row of cars behind me, but due to the road [lots of corners] i kept the the centre to prevent them from attempting to pass.

I think you will find pretty soon that you can be fined for obstructing the flow of traffic if you sit on the centre line and deliberately prevent following vehicles from passing. Big pat on the back for the first cop to catch you!

Yes, the terms of your licence restrict you to travelling at no more than 70kph, but they do not absolve you of the requirement to follow the road rules. If you have a line of vehicles behind you, all wanting to travel at 100kph and you are sitting on the centre line doing 70, you need your arse kicked. And so does your father - his actions are just as dumb.

You may think you are being staunch by riding where you do and also for not letting vehicles pass you, but what happens the day you do it to someone who decides to give your tail a little bump to encourage you to move out of the way? Or to someone who doesn't realise you are only doing 70kph and doesn't brake in time?

No one expects you to pull over immediately a vehicle comes up behind you, but for christ's sake, show some common courtesy! If you can pull over into a rest area or similar to let them pass, do it! Or at least keep to the left and let them have the opportunity to pass you when they can. You may not have confidence on roads with lots of corners, but most car drivers will safely be able to pass you - IF YOU LET THEM!!!

[TwoSeven]

I think you're missin the point dude.
This thread was pointed at newer riders not at those with enough experience to make informed decisions.
How are you in a cars blind spot---Oncoming traffic,traffic turning from either the left or right of you or for that matter directly in front of you-Wheel track puts ya right in the middle of their rear vision mirror.
What I'm seeing here is a bunch of opinions that will give information overload to a new rider.
On the average the right wheel track offers the safest road position I think that is undeniable. I diddn't go into correct following distance as it just muddies the waters.
A person with miles under the wheels with certainly make use of all the positioning options whilst riding -I certainly do.
The idea here is to offer the greatest chance of avoiding injury to a newer biker.

When you ride is someones wheel track, either left or right side, you end up positioning yourself in their blind spot caused by the position of the driver and the angle rear window pillar splitting the view between the side and rear view mirrors.

You may have heard of recent studies where many intersection accidents happen because the oncoming car was not seen by the driver because it was hidden by the front window pillar at the time they checked for oncoming traffic. Well the same happens for motorcyclists on the rear window pillar.

Another reason why you should not travel hehind a vehicle (but should position on their offside) is as I hopefully mentioned in an earlier post, the condition of an emergency stop. Being behind a car and messing up the stopping distance (perhaps being asleep, hazard on the road etc) would put you somewhere 'inside' the vehicle after negotiating its steel and glass armour plating. If you run on the offsides, then worst will happen is you'll stop along side. NB: That offside means that the side of your bike is about where their side mirror is. As you drop back in following distance, you can center the bike in the lane more. Of course, its important that you dont make yourself a hazard for drivers in other lanes. However, I personally advocate big safe following distance and riding in the center of the lane, over closing up the gap and having to move to the sides.

Obviously you can get round this [moving around the place] by leaving a significant gap so you drop back however in general riding conditions most motorcyclists being lazy sods, tired, other things on their mind etc, close the gap up and increase the hazard (I see many riders tailgaiting in chch).

As someone else mentioned, these techniques are part of your ability to 'control your lane' and really good bikers should know how to do this.

As to why people venture opinions - well thats partly due to the fact that most, if not all of us are not fully trained motorcycle tutors and do not have a legal disclaimer associated with the information that we give out in order to protect ourselves from a lawsuit from someone that hurt themselves from something we may have said. Thus, stuff we say, should only be treated as an opinion and undertaken at the riders own risk (insert standard forum post disclaimer here). If for forum had a universal indemnity clause for its members, I suspect your wouldnt get just opinions

Its important to understand following distances as it has a big influence with road positioning and visibility. In this case, if the waters must be muddied then so be it.

[FROSTY:Me]

There must be summat getting lost in interpretation here.
You had me even questioning my own logic.
I just sat in about 10 cars and looked in the rear vision mirrror.
If you ride in the right hand wheel track you are clearly visible to the driver
That is unless you are 2.0m or less from their bumper.