bike positioning on the road.

[Jackrat]

I have seen the phrase "dominate your lane". I use left track, right track, or centre of lane depending on circumstances. Just lately I'm spending more time in the middle when it's wet so as to avoid those shiny tar patches...

A cage driver recently commented adversely on the way I was parked, in the middle of the car park toward the back. He didn't think a bike should use the whole space. On the other hand I like lotsa space around, driving or parked.

I've had the parking space talk a couple of times myself.
Where do these prats think their getting off with that shit.
It gives a prime example of their thinking though
As far as lane positioning goes,I move around a fair bit depending on the situation at the time.
I like to be able to see the driver in front in their own mirrors,this way they SHOULD be able to see me and I can watch their face to see if they have.
I seldom ride in the left of my own lane unless I have another bike behind me.I tend to sit just right of center most of the time,for the very reasons Frosty points out.

[sunhuntin]

a. You're not invulnerable. Some psycho will run you over one day.

b. You do that to me when I'm in the car, and I'll fill in one of those dob in forms. If you are holding a queue of traffic up, get the hell out of the way at the earliest opportunity. People with your attitude cause accidents and death far more often than "speeding" does.

c. You're an idiot. It's not a right to use public roads it's a privilege.

i knew there was a reason i put you on my ignore list. earliest possible opportunity for me meant that there was a straight where i could quite happily ride in the ditch if need be, not a road with corners popping out of no where.

im an idiot? your a wanker

[Beemer]

I agree with you Frosty, if you are in a driver's blind spot, then you are obviously travelling too close to them. I always spot bikers coming up behind me, and it would only be when they are about to overtake that they momentarily disappear from view - only to reappear in front!

Sunhuntin, you really do seem to have an attitude problem. Jim and many other KBers are trying to give you some good advice and if you want to be alive for much longer, I suggest you listen to them. I agree with one of your statements though, you ARE an idiot. But as for Jim being a wanker? Not sure of the female equivalent, but you've just proved you're it.

With the speed limit for learners being 70kph, may I respectfully suggest you STAY AWAY FROM 100KPH ZONES UNTIL YOU CAN RIDE AT THAT SPEED WITHOUT HAMPERING OTHER ROAD USERS. You obviously don't have the skill or the courtesy to be sharing the open road with others, so until you have your restricted licence and can keep up with the flow of traffic, for your own safety and that of other road users, don't ride on 100kph roads. And if you choose to do so (sounds like the only advice you take is the voice in your own head...), then either keep up with the other road users or keep to the left so they can pass. You don't have to put yourself in danger to do so, but you really need to realise that Jim is right - it's not a right to use public roads, it's a privilege. Get with the programme!

[hXc]

I agree with you Frosty, if you are in a driver's blind spot, then you are obviously travelling too close to them. I always spot bikers coming up behind me, and it would only be when they are about to overtake that they momentarily disappear from view - only to reappear in front!

Sunhuntin, you really do seem to have an attitude problem. Jim and many other KBers are trying to give you some good advice and if you want to be alive for much longer, I suggest you listen to them. I agree with one of your statements though, you ARE an idiot. But as for Jim being a wanker? Not sure of the female equivalent, but you've just proved you're it.

With the speed limit for learners being 70kph, may I respectfully suggest you STAY AWAY FROM 100KPH ZONES UNTIL YOU CAN RIDE AT THAT SPEED WITHOUT HAMPERING OTHER ROAD USERS. You obviously don't have the skill or the courtesy to be sharing the open road with others, so until you have your restricted licence and can keep up with the flow of traffic, for your own safety and that of other road users, don't ride on 100kph roads. And if you choose to do so (sounds like the only advice you take is the voice in your own head...), then either keep up with the other road users or keep to the left so they can pass. You don't have to put yourself in danger to do so, but you really need to realise that Jim is right - it's not a right to use public roads, it's a privilege. Get with the programme!

Just what needed to be said. Thanks Beemer. Sounds like sunhuntin is a bit of a tosser.
Listen to other peoples advice. It could save your life one day. You may be stuck up and think that you own the road or whatever but just stay to the left to let them pass or don't be on the road. It's common courtesy. If you can't travel at the speed limit pull over and let others pass.

[MSTRS:Me]

When you ride is someones wheel track, either left or right side, you end up positioning yourself in their blind spot caused by the position of the driver and the angle rear window pillar splitting the view between the side and rear view mirrors.

Still can't see that. In the right wheel track (or the left for that matter) I can see the driver's face/eyes in both the centre and wing mirror, so unless said driver is acually blind, then I am in their visible spot.

[FROSTY:Me]

oyy you lot lets not fight.

[TwoSeven]

Still can't see that. In the right wheel track (or the left for that matter) I can see the driver's face/eyes in both the centre and wing mirror, so unless said driver is acually blind, then I am in their visible spot.

There is a little dispatch trick that was tought to me by a london copper. You put the bike in the cars blind spot -which happens to be in their wheel tracks (usually at about 2-3 bike lengths) and you can check them out using their own mirrors and they cant see you - usually done in stationary traffic. Its even better when following bikes - if I had a pound for every biker i'd seen nicked using that trick, i'd have a mcdonalds happy meal by now

Its a dispatch trick because if you perform the manuever fast enough you can distract the driver by grabbing their attention, dissapear in their blind spot and while they are distracted by looking for you, you can pass them.

Since i've spent many years actually using this technique, i'm afraid I cant believe people who say they 'always' see bikers and people who insist there is no blind spot. I've also used it to frighten the bejesus out of the odd jam jar copper. They see you in their rear mirror only to have you appear beside their drivers door in the right side lane and pull in the clutch (and rev the living daylights out of the engine that just happens to have a loud end-can). Did you know that it takes roughly 0.005s for them to hit the roof of their car.

Since the standard car driver excuse (often disclaimed by postings made in this forum) that the driver claimed they didnt see the person. One would probably be asking why.

But as always - just my thoughts

[Squiggles]

right hand side of the left side of the road is where i usually ride..... especially since most of the man holes and stuff are on the left.....


wen i park my bike i sit it in the middle to the rear of the park....i just keep getting this vision of some guy racing to the shops, seeing a "empty" spot and plowing straight into my precious ...... anyone else park like this?

[Ixion]

..
With the speed limit for learners being 70kph, may I respectfully suggest you STAY AWAY FROM 100KPH ZONES UNTIL YOU CAN RIDE AT THAT SPEED WITHOUT HAMPERING OTHER ROAD USERS. You obviously don't have the skill or the courtesy to be sharing the open road with others, so until you have your restricted licence and can keep up with the flow of traffic, for your own safety and that of other road users, don't ride on 100kph roads. And if you choose to do so (sounds like the only advice you take is the voice in your own head...), then either keep up with the other road users or keep to the left so they can pass. ..

Folks, folks, chill out. Bikers calling other bikers names is bad for everyone. If I may be so bold as to make a couple of comments.

I don't agree that learners should consider themselves precluded from 100kph zones. In earlier days I spent much time travelling the length of the North Island on BSA Bantams and other such power limited 125cc type bikes. In most cases the MAXIMUM speed , under good conditions was only 70kph. I don't believe that I was either a hazard or an unreasonable inconvenience to other drivers. One pulls to the far left and lets other traffic past AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. But there will always be situations where as soon as possible is not for a kilometre or so. One of these is in twisty bits where there IS no left, just a cliff or a sheer drop and/or guard rail

I interpreted Ms Sunhunters situation to be one of those. She was on a twisty bit where it was not safe to get other traffic past. Now what happens there, if you do keep leftish in the lane, someone will decide to pass you by the simple expedient of forcing you off the road. In these circumstances, holding a rightward lane position is sensible and safe.

And it does NOT usually hold other drivers up unreasonably , because in such twisty stuff one can't usually do 100kph anyway. (I have actually had drivers force past me , force me into the cliff to the point where I had foliage stuck in my clutch lever, then once past me SLOW DOWN to LESS than what I was doing. They didn't overtake me (dangerously) because I was holding them up, it was just the "I'm not following *him*" attitude.). And it is very rare for it to need more than a couple of kilometres before you can let them past. 2km at 70kph takes 1.7 minutes. At 100kph (EVEN assuming it could be done) takes 1.2 min. So maybe Ms Sunhunter delayed someone for 30 seconds. Hardly a lynching offence. She has indicated that she got any tail past as soon as it was safe.

Learners DO have as much right to be on the road as anyone else. I'm sort of surprised to see hints of the sort of attitudes, on here of all places, that make learners remove those L plates. So too does ANYONE who chooses to drive at less than 100kph (let alone whatever other 200+ speed someone thinks they ought to be able to ride at without being impeded by people who don't want to do that sort of speed).

Yes, most certainly everyone should be considerate of other drivers/riders, and pull over ASAP to let faster traffic through. I do NOT condone the "I'm doing the limit and he wants to break it so I won't let him through" attitude. But if someone were to dob me in for riding to slowly (as I do ), I'd jolly well dob them in for driving/riding over the limit (as I guarantee they would be).

[Beemer]

TwoSeven, I don't think anyone here is saying there is NO blind spot - I know I've gone to change lanes in the past and had a polite toot from a car that had been sitting in said blind spot. But what you are talking about is deliberately positioning yourself in someone's blind spot - not something most of us would do as a general rule.

As for calling other bikers names, I think the main reason everyone has got a little upset with Sunhuntin's attitude is the way she worded her response. Saying she sat out on the centre line to prevent other motorists from passing did not indicate to me that she had any intention of letting them pass until she was good and ready. This kind of attitude is usually only seen by those towing horse floats!

Yes, she DOES have a right to travel on 100kph roads, and many of us, when learning, would have had no choice if we wanted to get somewhere, but the point is to not ride/drive in such a manner to provoke other motorists. Yes, some motorists are dickheads and will try and overtake you even if you're doing 150kph, but the majority will realise when it is or isn't safe to pass a slower vehicle. I know as a learner I was pretty nervous when I had traffic building up behind me and an L-plate is no protection. Sure, none of us know exactly what road she is talking about, but the majority of roads do allow overtaking somewhere. We also have no idea how many vehicles were behind her - it may have been one or two or it may have been 20 - one indicates faster traffic catching up to the odd slow vehicle, the other a road hazard.

We all have a responsibility to ride with safety on our minds, and I'm afraid people expect motorcyclists to be going faster than them and they often have no patience with those who are doing less than the speed limit when road conditions are not a factor.

And I think to call someone a wanker because they are pointing out the consequences of your actions is a tad over the top. I wouldn't bother dobbing them in for going slow though - all that happens is the owner of the vehicle gets a letter telling them someone has complained - it's not like any action is taken. I've reported incidents of extremely dangerous driving and been prepared to stand up in court about it, but nothing has ever been taken any further. And if someone did report Sunhuntin for going too slow, they'd have at least 30kph to play with before THEY would be breaking the limit.

[cruzer]

Something I've noticed amongst new riders is the habit of hugging the left hand side of the road whilst riding.
Its a potential problem for ya and a habit I'd strongly discourage.
I use the phrase Take Ownership of the Road.
The place I suggest riding is the right hand wheel track in your lane.
That puts you about 800mm from the right hand sider of your lane.
It give you maximum view of the road around corners and makes you more visible to other road users. Theres also a lot less "stuff' on the road there.
Theres a whole heap of other reasons But I guess ya get the gist of wot Im sayin.
Hey this isn't a hard and fast "rule" --Just an observation over the years

I have used that part of the road and on two occassions, on a motorway on ramp, I have been passed on the inside by some asshole that doesn't know how to drive.
Now I try to (as you put it) "Take ownership" and ride as close to the centre without riding in the slippery bit and if someone wants to pass (I never do less than the speed limit) they can use another lane!

[Beemer]

I have used that part of the road and on two occassions, on a motorway on ramp, I have been passed on the inside by some asshole that doesn't know how to drive.

I think you'll find that a lot of drivers do this even when you are driving a car - it's not that they are trying to 'share your lane', they are just inconsiderate pricks who expect YOU to get out of THEIR way! The only time they don't do it is if your vehicle is bigger/older or more likely to damage theirs!

[cruzer]

Jim --Nothing new here --As I understand it it has always been a legal requirement to drive as far to the left as practicably possible.
If that was enforced to the letter of the law a shit load of cagers would be getting tickets--well at least where I live they would.
In 27 years of road riding I've never been pulled over for riding in the wrong wheel track

I Have! Once in 1982 (or thereabouts) riding up Great North Rd just coming up to Avondale, about 11PM and I get pulled over and given a ticket for failing to keep left. Coudn't beleive it and I guess neither could some of his colleagues as I took the ticket to the then Ministry of Transport to protest the next day and the traffic cop on the other side of the counter screwed it up proclaiming that it was a "hideous Offence" and tossed it in the bin.
Guess it depends on the mood or hunger of power affecting the writer at the time?

[Ixion]

I think you'll find that a lot of drivers do this even when you are driving a car - it's not that they are trying to 'share your lane', they are just inconsiderate pricks who expect YOU to get out of THEIR way! The only time they don't do it is if your vehicle is bigger/older or more likely to damage theirs!

This is very annoying and frightening. But (Devil's advocate here ) , isn't it exactly what we do to THEM when we lane split ?

[cruzer]

I think you'll find that a lot of drivers do this even when you are driving a car - it's not that they are trying to 'share your lane', they are just inconsiderate pricks who expect YOU to get out of THEIR way! The only time they don't do it is if your vehicle is bigger/older or more likely to damage theirs!

Therefore, I use as much of my/the lane as possible