Licence tests - is this shonky or what

[Ixion]

SE380 I think. It's in my gargre at the moment, I'll measure it tonight.

2.6 mtr measured from a line level with the front of the front bumper to a line level with the driver's seat back.

[raster]

Watch out for this in your mirrors

*first attempt at attachment*

[Ixion]

Next time make sure you ask for a tester who has a bike license.

I believe one of the reasons I failed my restricted was cos that *itch knew nothing about bikes.....

Two days later I had a tester that had a full bike license and passed easily.

OK. I finally got this clarifed.

Original call to LTSA Mr Noel Woodley was insistent that a tester must always have a license for the vehicle being tested. The man from NZDL disagreed. Not so for motorcycles he said.

So today I called Mr Woodley back. He repeated the assertion "must have a license for the class being tested". Told him NZDL disagreed. "Um, ah, I'll check and get back to you".

He did get back, and NZDL are right. The testers have to be licensed for the class being tested for EVERY CLASS EXCEPT MOTORCYCLES.

So the person testing you for a motorcycle license does NOT have to have a motorcycle licence.

I asked him how a person who had never ridden a motorcycle could pass judgment on a motorcylists riding ability (not road code knowledge etc). He waffled and had no answer. He tried to argue that the test was "objective" and tested road code knowledge, which was license independant. I pointed out this was not so, and vehicle control was a part of the test. How can you meaningfully judge vehicle control on a type of vehicle that you have never yourself driven ?

And even if were so, the Road Code for motorcyclists has specific sections which differ from that for cars. If the tester does not hold a motorcycle licence there is no evidence that they know the motorcycle road code bits (ie the motorcycle theory test is different to the car one , and they have never sat the motorcycle theory test.)

So , in summary:

A motorcyclist taking the test may be failed by someone who has never ridden a motorcycle .

There is no effective quality control, on the testers as regards motorcycle tests (LTSA don't audit motorcycle testing, and NZDL cannot ever remember doing one).

Both these seem quite wrong to me. If you're going to tell me I don't know how to ride, I expect you to at least have ridden a bike .Once again, failing for a "road code" error, eg going through a stop sign is another matter. I'm talking about failure for "leaning over too far", "being too confident" and the like . And, from a road safety point of view, a rider could be quite incompetant , but in ways that a non motorcyclist would not notice.

So, when I get a spare moment, I shall send off a letter to the Minister.

(According to Mr Woodley, the tester for the Basic Handling Skills test DOES need to have a motorcycle license)

[Ixion]

By the by, Mr Woodley rambled several times about the CBTA testing program, and implied this was to be the way of the future. I pointed out that this program had a requirement that the person had to have held a cage license for two years first. He went very quiet.

Is this a sneaky scheme to try to prevent anyone getting a motorcycle license if they don't already have a cage license - i.e. they abolish the "normal" test and say everyone has to take the CBTA one. But you have to have a full cage license for two years first ?

I think I will fire a tactical shot across the Minister's bow on this one and see if I flush anything out. Good thing the Freedom of Information Act

[Eurygnomes]

Damn! Tried to give you Rep points Ix, with the comment "well done, Nancy Drew" but I have to spread 'em around a bit more first.

This is incredible. I'd actually liken it to male obstetricians though, "hello? Are you telling me how to have a baby, and what feels 'normal'? I don't think so...do you?"

(that was completely OT and irrelevant since I've never seen ANY obstetrician (medically speaking))

Do those of us on our Loser or Recently graduated plates have the option of asking when booking a test for a tester who DOES hold a class 6 licence (for more than 2 years - if they're going to be pedantic...so the hell am I)?

[Lou Girardin]

Excellent Ixion. With cretins like the denizens of LTNZ running road safety, is there any wonder that we do so poorly as drivers?
Your comment about CBTA mirrors what Monash are suggesting in Victoria, that bikers have to have a car licence first.
This is well worth following up, perhaps a call to TV3. They're hot on licence testing.

[Pixie]

I pointed out this was not so, and vehicle control was a part of the test. How can you meaningfully judge vehicle control on a type of vehicle that you have never yourself driven ?

)

I can see the tester's report....
"The subject showed no control of the vehicle at all,leaning all over the place as he negotiated the course"

[Pancakes]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Italy have a policy of riding a low power scooter or bike for a few years before getting your car licence? I think a wandering friend might have said something to that effect. Would be a good idea if it's not a rule. I have cycle couriered and ridden (pedaled) for most of my life commuting 2 or 3 hours each day sometimes and you learn pretty quick to keep an eye out. Maybe car drivers would put their necks and mirrors to better use if they had the habit drilled into them from riding on two wheels?

[Damon]

I recently sat my full about a month ago, I’ve had my learners and restricted for about 10 years now and was a little paranoid that I may not be up on the play with recent rule changes and the like, so went out a bought a new road code, it’s all pretty much the same thank god, but I was expecting a theory test and there wasn’t one? Which I thought would have been a good idea, just to check I still knew the rules and all that, but that’s cool, one thing I did notice was in the back it described the practical test that I would have to do:

Part 1: Basic conformation ride test (approx 10 mins)
Part 2: Detecting and responding to riding hazards in built up areas (approx 15 mins)
Part 3: Detecting and responding to riding hazards in higher speed zones (approx 20 mins)

It goes into more detail about what is involved in each part and seems like there is a bit to cover and said as I finished each part the tester will ask me about the hazards and give feed back, all up it should take about an hour.

When I sat my test, the guy checked my licence, indicators and that the foot brake light worked and we were off, we went from Manukau, out to the airport and back, went through a couple sets of lights and around a round a bout and headed back, when we got back he told me I’d passed fine and then said “oh, and I’m meant to ask you about a couple of hazards you noticed along the way”, I fed him merging traffic and traffic from side streets and he signed the paper and I was off.
The test took 30 mins at most and I don’t think he had any idea what was going on, I was on a crappy ZZR that gave me the shits, it was so sketchy around corners it felt like it was going to fall over from under me and I was sure he was going to say I looked to un-easy, but nothing? 3 days later I was ridding a 1000cc VTR, personally, unless he noticed it was the bike or I looked heaps better than I thought, I would have been weary giving out a licence.

I’m no expert, but from someone that’s just done the test, I thought it was way too easy to legally be allowed to ride any bike I want?

[SuperDave]

AND - he also said that the tester doing a motorcycle test MUST have a motorcycle license! (Explained that this is because they don't have a warrant , as the MoT used to).

Now my impression is that it seems unlikely that they all do ? I grilled him a bit on this and he wriggled a lot . Does any one know anything about this ?

I reckon that's bullshit as the woman who followed me and 'tested' me for my restricted didn't know shit about bikes nor does she ride, so thus I have to assume she does not have a class 6 - unless it's possibly just a matter of ticking a box when applying to be a tester.

"If you would like a class 6 licence please tick the box and include and an additional $50 when submitting your application"

Some quality research you are doing into this! Keep it up and keep us posted.