Bikes getting too sick?

[Big Dave]

Guy on R1/GSXR/ZX10/Fireblade under pressure from demerit points, now where have i heard that before....oh I remember - just about every owner I've talked to.

All these bikes go to 113kph in the time and motion it takes to change lanes. They don't hit their sweet spots till 160kph.

I find it very difficult to ride these type of bikes at the speed limit - call it a willpower thing, but the way things are in Auckland now, that's what you mainly have to do.

All my life I've chased big horsepower. I had the first 1100 on the market. Bolting on, adding too, hopping up, squeeze some more. Gimme powah!

I've even cajoled 140 out of the Trophy to meet performance spec when carrying a passenger. But it's a big heavy touring bike.

This current batch of hyperbikes has me even thinking they are all getting just a bit too 'sick' for road use - well, keeping a licence anyway.

Don't get me wrong - I so love that surge as the ZX10 hits 7K and the front wheel launches skywards and the way a flick of the hips changes trajectories and the way they stop on a dime.

But it's just getting so easy. Click, click, click and you are doing 140.

At least with the Tbird's humble 70 horsepower you have to work the engine to hit disqualification pace.

Spare me the 'soft' or 'old man' lecture, till you've ridden with me - but really, 170 horsepower - waddayareckon - are they getting too 'sick' for the city?

[vifferman]

Spare me the 'soft' or 'old man' lecture, till you've ridden with me - but really, 170 horsepower - waddayareckon - are they getting too 'sick' for the city?

You could say that about most bikes and cars - do we really need vehicles that can do 0-100 in a poofteenth of a second, and have a top speed of 300 km/h?

[Big Dave]

Kiwi Rider Magazine - 2005

The first time I laid eyes on 'Abbott' he was doing the very act that earned him the nickname. A loud, round, raucous and totally inappropriate 'Abbott and Costello - heeeeyyy AAAA-b-b-buttt' finished with a flourish of 3 Stooges style wiping-hand-down-face, accompanied by mi-mi-mi sound bites.

'What the?'....I thought, but he had gone through school with a few of the stauncher lads, and they vouched for him, and when he took the microphone and belted out Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee’s blues classic 'If you ever change your mind', in a baritone that only a man that large, and one quite gifted could belt out, you tended to overlook his other 'shortcomings' - like launching into 'Suzanna's a funny old man, eiderly dan' with endless comic hiccuping sound effects for accompaniment.

He had a serious side, but what 'Abbott' was meant to do, was bad slapstick and sing the blues. The last time I saw him, he'd become so large that a guitar would only just sit on the edge of his knee - lap was out of the question - the belly went all the rest of the way up. He still had the sweetest Sonny & Brownie sound and, back in the days of the bad slapstick, he wasn't quite as rotund. In fact he didn't look too bad on a motorcycle, not good, but not too bad either.

'Abbott' was one of half a dozen of us. Working our way up through the 'classes'. I had a Yamaha SR500 single, Col had a CB550, 'Flimsey' had a CB400 and 'The Abbott' was the first one to break into the 'superbike' class when he bought himself a second hand CB750K2 (which quickly inspired my purchase of an XS1100, Al's Z1B, Brian's Z1100 etc, etc), but give him his due, 'Abbott' was the first.

Unfortunately, he wasn't the best rider. In fact he was a pretty ordinary rider, maybe executed better than his slapstick, but I saw that poor old Honda cart-wheeling up the road on more than one occasion.

Like on our first ever 'big' tour. Sydney to Byron Bay. 'Brownie' (the surfer dude - not the blues singer) had a tent in the caravan park at Byron Bay and we were going up North and staying 'for as long as it takes'. (Nowadays I'd use words like 'feral') but in those 'heady' days, summer weeks in a tent at 'Byron' sounded enticing....so off we set.

I still had the 500 and the rest (except 'Abbott') were on mid weight, early eighties Hondas and Yamahas.

We had an uneventful run up the coast, without incident, and we 'made camp' virtually on the beach, under the Norfolk pines, in a tent city, with 20 other blokes from our local area - surfers, riders, guitars, a few hippy chics and 'as long as it takes'.

The second night up there was as long as it took, as a matter of fact.

Coming back from the pub with 'supplies', 'Abbott' dropped the front wheel of the Honda into a large, edge of the road, pothole.

He was unceremoniously high sided and the bike 'end-overed' almost all the way back to the camp site.

The first thing Ken intoned as we slid to a stop and flipped open visors was,
'That beer's going to be pretty badly shook up - better not open any in the tents’, as 'Abbott' was wobbling to his feet amongst the strewn tinnies.

After the next 24 hours listening to him moan about the road rash on his bum, the damage to his new metal-flake paint job (and a huge tropical storm), we decided we'd had enough.

'Abbott' climbed stoically aboard the Honda and we headed back to the 'big smoke' - paradise lost. (Not really, it was always about the ride anyway)

It wasn't even the worst, or last fall I saw 'Abbott' take.

The Nepean river to the south-west of Sydney is a meandering, usually gentle stream that has, over the aeons, cut steep ravines through the sandstone hills. In one of these ravines is the 'Picton Weir'. Created to control the river's flow whilst a larger dam was constructed downstream, the weir has high, steep escarpments on both sides and a reservoir of great depth behind.

A huge, moss covered slippery slope is to the front. The slope can be 'slid' on a Hessian sack and whilst the shallow bottom of catchment pool at the base and ensuing aquaplaning can cause some slight abrasions, the buzz was the second best reason we rode out there - regularly.

The main attraction (apart from topless girlfriends) was the 'Tarzan' swing that must be a contender for 'best on the planet'.

Some brave soul had climbed a massive ghost gum and securely attached 40 or more meters of the type of rope you would see on a tug-boat, to a huge overhanging limb.

A huge rush was only a matter of climbing the steep sides, rope in hand, as far as you could 'bottle it' - grab hold, lift, and swing out over clear, fresh water, hundreds of feet deep.

There was a small ledge to clear, but once done (easily), how long and how high and how far you fell were virtually limitless, just depended on how high you climbed.

There were four ledges up the slope that saw most of the action: Girls, mice, men....and bloody lunatic.

Most of us leapt off the 'man's platform', the more athletic dived from the rope, most, like me, attained a good altitude and then dropped into the drink as stylishly as we could.

I'd just splashed down and was nonchalantly floating my way back to the edge (Co-pilot, still at girlfriend status, in the vicinity) when I looked up and saw 'The Abbott' on the 'man's' platform. Pale, round, and obviously 'frozen' in the 40c heat.

'Ekka' had 4 brothers. I'm not sure if that fact had anything to do with his laconic 'wysiwyg' attitude, but 'Ek' was about the most straightforward, uncomplicated bloke I ever knew.

If 'Abbott' had said - 'I can't do it....push me, 'Ekka' to anyone other than 'Ekka', the outcome would have been different, but 'Ekka' said 'OK' and gave 'Abbott's' large frame a full blooded, fit-surfer-dude's, hip-and-shoulder shove, that launched the big man into the void almost the instant he voiced the ill-conceived request.

Suddenly airborne, panic did its work. He let go of the rope and started impressively clutching at....mid air. It looked like he had found some too, as he bounced, butt first, off the 'mice' platform.

Unfortunately no 'Rodney-Dangerfield-Back-to-School' trick dive ensued, no ‘Triple Lindy’ as he hit the 'girl's' ledge at an angle that sent him further cartwheeling to the bottom floor, like slow motion footage of a flaming Mescherscmitt plummeting earthwards in the film 'Battle of Britain'.

Winded, shaken and fortunately well enough padded not to have been badly hurt, he lay on the rocky shelf, bellowing for his lost wind like a walrus that had just hauled itself onto the pack ice, as we rushed to his assistance. (The co-pilot denies this - she maintains most of us just laughed uproariously. More slapstick!)

'Ekka's' unrepentant, emotionless voice from on high still rings in my ears: 'He said push me - so I did'

'Abbott' was shaken, shocked, but mostly OK and it was fortunate that 'Yester's Yamaha was off the road and he had gone in the car with the 'spare' girls, so he rode the Honda home.

'Abbott' sold (what was left of) the bike not long after that. He bought an off-roader later on, but the series of falls convinced him that maybe the 'man of action' role was not for him and that the blues were really what he was meant to do. He still plays the Sydney pub scene occasionally.

Some people are just not meant to ride motorcycles well. It needs a few god given gifts - co-ordination, balance, vision, even a sense of anticipation.

Whilst training has improved and many skills can be taught, I look at what is available to a new rider in 2005 and wonder where the 'experience' my generation gained on 30, 40 and 50 horsepower machines is being found today. Scooters have that much poke!

Sure, I never want to return to ‘them good ol' days' of that SR500, but I wonder about the 'situations' a modern, mid size, 250kph hyperbike can create for the 'Abbotts' of this current generation.

How can I advise today's brand new rider to not buy that gleaming new ‘super-sports’ just yet, gain some experience on something that won't 'bite' quite so hard and rack up some distance first – and how can I say it without sounding like some ‘bluesey’, petticoat wearing old fart?

Maybe 'Abbott' was on the right track with Sonny and Brownie after all:
'If you ever,
change your mind,
about leavin',
leavin' me behind......
Bring it on home...
Bring it on home....to me.'

Hmmmm, perhaps I won't push it.
Just be careful out there – eh?

[mikey]

to much stuff to read. wana condense it for people who cant concentrate more than 10 seconds?

[MSTRS:Me]

How can I advise today's brand new rider to not buy that gleaming new ‘super-sports’ just yet, gain some experience on something that won't 'bite' quite so hard and rack up some distance first – and how can I say it without sounding like some ‘bluesey’, petticoat wearing old fart?

That was a great read, thanks Dave. Perhaps in answer, there should an added licence class for these powerhouse bikes? you go thru Learners, Restricted, Full. Then graduate to Fool. (says one)

[Big Dave]

No............(phone rang before finished reply) - just read every 10th word.

[Beemer]

Guy in our club upgrades to a ZX10, rides it three times then bins it. Written off bike, thankfully not too badly damaged rider - and an admission that the power was just too much for him.

I used to get heaps of people laughing at me when I rode the RG150. Big deal, so its top speed wasn't 240kph and it didn't wheelie away from the traffic lights - by the same token it didn't scare the shit out of me either.

I know I am not - and never will be - a good enough rider to take advantage of the top speed of most bikes so to ME personally they are a waste of money. My Goose can exceed the speed limit - so I know there is a little there if I need to overtake, etc., and that's good enough for me!

Even my Beemer was grudgingly admired on Sunday - my husband was riding it and beat his mate on a KTM Duke off the lights - said mate later "there's a lot to be said for usable power" - precisely!

[WRT]

If you are having probs keeping a licence (used to be a prob of mine), then stick to the big v-twins. You can cruise on them at legal motorway speeds all day, and they still go like stink when you want to open them up, or put them on a track. Great for torque and quick launches from the lights.

They may not be quite so quick as the fours, but they are a lot quicker than the bus - once you've lost your licence.

[Blackbird]

Hmmmm... I've been thinking about this quite a lot recently. Have had the Blackbird for nearly 5 years, love it to bits, used a goodly percentage of its performance on occasions but what comes next??? Another Hyperbike? What would be the point?

Nope, when the 'bird does eventually go, my eye will be on a new Speed Triple. More relaxed riding position and tons of grunt up to (and beyond) 120 km/hr, which is where most of us spend 95% of our time if we want to keep our licenses.

Good thread Dave.

Geoff

[Hitcher]

to much stuff to read. wana condense it for people who cant concentrate more than 10 seconds?

Ride at your own pace, not the bike's...

[bugjuice]

I have a short clip which is mainly advertising for the 'busa, which says at one point, that the 'busa was one of the fastest production bikes of it's time, and still is a mental machine today. The four main manufacturers (I assume would be Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda and Kawa) came to a mutual agreement to limit their bikes to 300kph, regardless of power/speed/weight etc. This is meant to 'cap' bikes and their stupidly quick speeds. But 300 is beyond stupid, since to do that on a road is just plain crazy. Yeah, I know what I've done..

So that caps the power. Without mods, no bike should go over 300, unless you're going downhill with the wind behind you, and the clutch in.. So, the power, weight, and P-W ratio thing.. It can't get much better than it is for the time being. The K5 boasts the lightest bike, producing a mental hp, and it goes on the roads like it was a track. Can pull wheelies off the power in 3rd (I heard a rumor you can try 4th) and chew thru tyres on a daily basis, along with fuel to boot. It's as light as it can be and as strong as it can be given the materials used, and still affordable. This is modern-age superbikes.

But last year, the ZX10 was boasting the best facts. Before then, the R1.. So is it the CBR next year? But how? and at what cost?
Personally, I think it'll level for now.. How much stock power can you put thru a rubber contact patch the size of a tennis ball?

Personally, another reason why I think 600s are more than enough for the road. You can loose your lisence with a 250.. it's just not as fun.. My 636 will pull 107kph in first. I've got 5 more gears. The thous do even more! What's the point when you can get points on your lisence without changing gear? 6 is more than enough for the roads, me reckons, for sports bikes anyway. Cruisers are a bit different..

[Ixion]

[shrug] Squidlies buy 'em, squidlies think they are the bee's knees on em, squidlies crash 'em, squidlies remove themselves from the gene pool. Usually before they've had time to propagate. Darwin in action.

Sensible riders look at what they NEED, not what they want to brag about, and buy and ride accordingly.

Nothing wrong with heaps of horsepower (no long as the torque curve is flat enough ). You don't HAVE to twist that throttle, and most of the big bikes have enough low down to potter about happily enough. Maybe a RG500 might be a problem.

Problem's not with the bikes, 'tis with the riders. If the only thing you take into account when buying is how cool it looks, how fast it will go, and how far you can get your knee down, then you better have a LOT of experience. Or good life insurance.

Don't agree with stifling the bike cos the rider's got a dumb attitude.

And there are people out there who will use most, at least, of what a 1000 can do. Not me, which is why I don't ride one. But others do, you know who they are. Don't say I'm endorsing 300kph on the public road, but there are some people here who can handle that.

[Big Dave]

Ride at your own pace, not the bike's...

...which is getting hard to do.

[Motu]

Gosh,that was almost pretty good,y'know you could probably earn a living doing that if you tidied it up a bit.Why are there so many Australians in all your stories?

I've put in a few years riding,but never really been bitten by the power or speed bug,I've always been happy pushing a low powered poor handling bike beyond it's limits....you can't ride like that with more than 100hp,60hp is ample for me.Mind you,a lot of my street bikes have been dirt bikes which have a better power to weight ratio than street bikes.Bikes over the last 10 yrs have so much power and handling that I doubt anyone could scratch the surface of their potential on the road,I'll be the first to admit I don't have the ability to cope with a 250cc sports bike,let alone a 600 or 1000.....and when I see the people who ride them I just think - ''do you really need that? are you really up to it?'' Maybe I haven't learnt much in all my yrs on the road,but one thing I know is where I stand as far as what sort of bike I can handle....and have the need for.

[TonyB]

Ride at your own pace, not the bike's...

Rode a GSXR1000K4 a while back. Even though I ride a good example of what was once the cutting edge 1000 sports bike, I was having to really work at it to keep the thing down to 120ish. There was just no sensation of speed.

I didn't ride it hard but I suspect that you can't actually 'use' the first two gears due to it's tendency to want to point the front wheel skywards (if you're a skinny runt like me). Once you hit third you can explore the upper end of the tacho, but by then you're at "gimme your license and walk home" speeds. I have always thought the more power the better, because you can ride quickly without stressing the engine, but I wonder if a level has been reached where there's not much point in going any further. My short ride on this bike had me thinking that perhaps a GSXR750 is a more useable option?

Having said that, I know that this subject has come up everytime a faster bike comes out, and it will continue to do so, and we will continue to demand more.