GOT HIM!

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Kids go through developmental stages. With the modern era of parents working full time + computer/xbox/playstaion gmaes etc = kids missing out on important developmental milestones and living within a dream world. I reckon its adding up to teenagers who drive like maniacs and kids who do senseless things like this 14 year old boy. I suspect that its only going to get worse, lets hope that I'm wrong...

[ManDownUnder]

Kids go through developmental stages. With the modern era of parents working full time + computer/xbox/playstaion gmaes etc = kids missing out on important developmental milestones and living within a dream world. I reckon its adding up to teenagers who drive like maniacs and kids who do senseless things like this 14 year old boy. I suspect that its only going to get worse, lets hope that I'm wrong...

Agreed entirely...

The add in a sense of hopelessness bourne of poverty or Mum and Dad arguing etc... and some booze to deal with that... boys being boys egging each other on etc...

It's easy to see how someone can get really stuffed up in this world.

[Smorg]

Agreed entirely...

The add in a sense of hopelessness bourne of poverty or Mum and Dad arguing etc... and some booze to deal with that... boys being boys egging each other on etc...

It's easy to see how someone can get really stuffed up in this world.

HOw can you be sympathectic?

[idb]

I think that because kids these days are more observers than participators (TV, video games) and are often disconnected from the others that they are interacting with (text phones, computers) they are unable to develop empathy and understand the consequences of their actions.
Attending the funeral of the guy would be brilliant therapy.

[Big Dave]

Agreed entirely...

The add in a sense of hopelessness bourne of poverty or Mum and Dad arguing etc... and some booze to deal with that... boys being boys egging each other on etc...

It's easy to see how someone can get really stuffed up in this world.

Agreed entirely...too

I've ranted before about the effects of the violent drivel that is presented to them on television 24/7 - emulations - games - web sites and it almost has me thinking we're entering a phase of human evilution.

When will we be smart enough to say that all this mass media murder-tainment is having a bad effect and the ratings that sell toothpaste are secondary considerations.

(OK I'll admit it - that was a typo it was meant to be evolution- but I'm leaving it)

[Big Dave]

HOw can you be sympathectic?

Because I did stupid things when I was 14 too. Just nowhere near that stupendously stupid or tragic.

That being said I hope the punishment is stern and appropriate. He's still old enough to know right from wrong.

[James Deuce]

Because I did stupid things when I was 14 too. Just nowhere near that stupendously stupid or tragic.

That being said I hope the punishment is stern and appropriate. He's still old enough to know right from wrong.

Hear hear. Some of that feeling of sympathy for me is also because he may well have decent parents who are now going to torture themselves forever trying to figure out where they went wrong. We're assuming this kid was a drop kick. This may have been the first time he ever did anything stupid.

[HenryDorsetCase]

If you pick up the 8kg rock with the INTENT to throw it down onto a unsuspecting person on the motorway.... then it should be MURDER. He had INTENT to harm someone. That is premeditated. So then it is MURDER. Not manslaughter. Throw him inside with MURDERER beside his name.

When I ride on the motorway I always look up at every bridge over the motorway to see who is up there, just because of these murdering little idiots.

Time to set an example to these kids... and I don't care if he was on "P" or whatever other lame excuse his defence can come up with... its still MURDER. He must pay for his crime, he took a life with the INTENT to harm someone.

well actually no:

www.legislation.govt.nz

Crimes Act 1961:

167.Murder defined—



Culpable homicide is murder in each of the following cases:





(a)If the offender means to cause the death of the person killed:





(b)If the offender means to cause to the person killed any bodily injury that is known to the offender to be likely to cause death, and is reckless whether death ensues or not:





(c)If the offender means to cause death, or, being so reckless as aforesaid, means to cause such bodily injury as aforesaid to one person, and by accident or mistake kills another person, though he does not mean to hurt the person killed:





(d)If the offender for any unlawful object does an act that he knows to be likely to cause death, and thereby kills any person, though he may have desired that his object should be effected without hurting any one.


and



168(1)Culpable homicide is also murder in each of the following cases, whether the offender means or does not mean death to ensue, or knows or does not know that death is likely to ensue:





(a)If he means to cause grievous bodily injury for the purpose of facilitating the commission of any of the offences mentioned in subsection (2) of this section, or facilitating the flight or avoiding the detection of the offender upon the commission or attempted commission thereof, or for the purpose of resisting lawful apprehension in respect of any offence whatsoever, and death ensues from such injury:





(b)If he administers any stupefying or overpowering thing for any of the purposes aforesaid, and death ensues from the effects thereof:





(c)If he by any means wilfully stops the breath of any person for any of the purposes aforesaid, and death ensues from such stopping of breath.





(2)The offences referred to in subsection (1) of this section are those specified in the following provisions of this Act, namely:





(a)Section 73 (treason) or section 78 (communicating secrets):





(b)Section 79 (sabotage):





(c)Section 92 (piracy):





(d)Section 93 (piratical acts):





(e)Section 119 to 122 (escape or rescue from [prison] or lawful custody or detention):





[(f)section 128 (sexual violation):]





(g)Section 167 (murder):





(h)Section 208 (abduction):





(i)Section 209 (kidnapping):





[(j)section 231 (burglary):]





[(k)section 234 (robbery):]





[(l)section 267 (arson)]

now it seems to me that none of those definitions is a good fit for the "beyond reasonable doubt" standard required to convict.

I think it will be a case where the charge is murder, but the judge will direct a conviction for manslaughter (on the basis of reckless or dangerous conduct).

Like someone else said, the sentence will be "go to this holiday camp and be taught how to be a proper theif, then have your record wiped at age 18"

Its important the fuckers dont breed... and neither do his parents.

[hondacmx450]

it dont mater if it was his first time or not you soft cocksif it was your son that was dead i spose you would go and say it is all right we forgive you and god loves you and we r all praying for you

im praying the little shit dies an eye for a eye and then our crims would think twice or at least thay would suffer the same thing as death why should i pay tax to keep this little fuck whit in juv and if you say im hart less year i am

i lost a freind like this and the prick got off with next to nufing so year i know what it is like
no justice

[Zed]

The little critter that dropped the concrete of the overbridge...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?...ectID=10342065

That brings a sigh of relief, I kind of thought they didn't have a hope of catching him? I'm happy they've caught him for the sake of the family & friends of the victim/s, but
I'm also sad that justice will probably not be served because of the age of the offender!!

[Ixion]

well actually no:

www.legislation.govt.nz

Crimes Act 1961:


now it seems to me that none of those definitions is a good fit for the "beyond reasonable doubt" standard required to convict.

I think it will be a case where the charge is murder, but the judge will direct a conviction for manslaughter (on the basis of reckless or dangerous conduct).

Like someone else said, the sentence will be "go to this holiday camp and be taught how to be a proper theif, then have your record wiped at age 18"

Its important the fuckers dont breed... and neither do his parents.

"(d)If the offender for any unlawful object does an act that he knows to be likely to cause death, and thereby kills any person, though he may have desired that his object should be effected without hurting any one."

seems a pretty good fit to me.

[vifferman]

I'm also sad that justice will probably not be served because of the age of the offender!!

But what would be just, Zed?
There are no reparations that are suitable, and no punishment that will bring the guy who died back to his family. Even the harshest of punishments isn't going to right this wrong.
If the perpetrator is sensitive, and has a conscience, he will be remorseful and regret what he has done, regardless of any punitive measures taken, and if he isn't remorseful, then any punishment will only serve to 'toughen him up'.

It's the same for most crimes - you always get people bleating on about not getting justice, usually when someone's been killed and they want revenge (and think that is justice) but save for crimes where reparation is possible, there is no justice, just the due course of the legal process.

[Zed]

But what would be just, Zed?

Full "life" imprisonment.

[placidfemme]

20 year old guy dead
14 year old going to jail for murder..

What a bloody waste.

what a shame... both young, one has no future now, and the other just screwed his up proberly beyond repair...

[ManDownUnder]

Full "life" imprisonment.

I hear ya - I gotta admit I'd be inclined to ask "why" he did it. If there is an issue that can be corrected - let's aim for that.

It's easy enough to say lock him up, throw away the key, kill him... or whatever... but without understanding the cause of what happened, how can be be sure it won't happen again? How do we know this kid isn't a poofteenth away from being the next Prime Minister, or discoverer of Cancer treatments currently unknown.

The victim's family and friends are up in arms about it - and rightly so. But I think a just society needs to weigh all the facts, neutrally, and come to an understanding of what happened before we're able to adequately prescribe what happens next.

Last - before the flames go up on this post... I am not advocating what the kid did - I think it's one the dumbest things he could have... I am saying we need to stop and think before we act.

Because of the emotional charge this time - I think it's cause to stop and think for LONGER than we normally would.

MDU