GOT HIM!

[ManDownUnder]

Bring back hard labour, capital punishment for capital offences, and other appropriate punishments.

Hard labour - yes, make their life uncomfortable - yes... but I personally draw the line at capital punishment.

Tell you what - it'd make a good election stance though wouldn't it?
MDU

[HenryDorsetCase]

"(d)If the offender for any unlawful object does an act that he knows to be likely to cause death, and thereby kills any person, though he may have desired that his object should be effected without hurting any one."

seems a pretty good fit to me.

well yes and no:

the unlawful object part is easy enough (presumably theres a law against dropping stuff off motorway overbridges, or recklessly endangering the public or something) but the "knows to be likely to cause death" might be the issue: rememver we are in "beyond reasonable doubt" territory, and its what the idiot knew or thought at the time thats relevant.

example being, I just wanted to drop stuff off the bridge and wasnt aiming at this car... he changed lanes..... therefore I had no intention and since I was aiming at the road not the car I had no ideal it was likely to cause death.... blah blah.

not excusing it, and I hope that the fucker is shanked in prison, but it seems unlikely.

[vifferman]

Hard labour - yes, make their life uncomfortable - yes... but I personally draw the line at capital punishment.

You'll note that I deleted that post immediately after posting it.
I wanted to say something about justice, but realised I don't have the answer to "what is just?".

[mstriumph]

Should the punishment fit the crime?

... or should the punishment fit the criminal?

Should motivation [as in "i had a horrible childhood"] be a deciding factor in guilt?

... or should only the consequence [as in "someone is dead because of what i did"] of the crime be considered relevant?

These questions are already answered in legislation --- but has the moral dimension been properly addressed?

i'd have to vote 'no' on that as i think the law has little to do with either fairness or justice .......... from the sound of some of these posts i'm not alone [much good that it does]

[Lou Girardin]

I'd be all in favour of capital punishment, if they could guarantee no mistakes.

[SPman]

How many of you out there did dumb shit when you were 13-14?
Not that dumb, maybe, but probably most of us did.
Young guys do dumb shit and, when they've got no real firm role models to ameliorate and guide their behaviour, constant bullshit video games, media etc., this is the inevitable tragic outcome!
Justice!
Revenge is more like what is being bandied about here!
Righteous idignation and revenge, disguised as howls for justice, by people who should know better.
If it was my son - I would be PISSED, but, until I know the background of the whole sorry situation, I'm holding back the vitriol. Like Bush going into Iraq - knee jerk reactions in these circumstances are normally fully counter productive - better to see if,in time, some good can come of the whole sorry situation!

[Ixion]

well yes and no:

the unlawful object part is easy enough (presumably theres a law against dropping stuff off motorway overbridges, or recklessly endangering the public or something) but the "knows to be likely to cause death" might be the issue: rememver we are in "beyond reasonable doubt" territory, and its what the idiot knew or thought at the time thats relevant.

example being, I just wanted to drop stuff off the bridge and wasnt aiming at this car... he changed lanes..... therefore I had no intention and since I was aiming at the road not the car I had no ideal it was likely to cause death.... blah blah.

not excusing it, and I hope that the fucker is shanked in prison, but it seems unlikely.

All those excuses are excluded by the phrase "though he may have desired that his object should be effected without hurting any one"

So even if the culprit says "I did not want to kill anyone I just wanted to drop concrete" ; at 14 he must know that such action "is likely to cause death" , and is therefore liable for murder even though "he may have desired that his object should be effected without hurting any one"

I wouldn't hold my breath on a NZ court having the balls to go through with it though.

[mstriumph]

How many of you out there did dumb shit when you were 13-14?
Not that dumb, maybe, but probably most of us did.
Young guys do dumb shit and, when they've got no real firm role models to ameliorate and guide their behaviour, constant bullshit video games, media etc., this is the inevitable tragic outcome!
Justice!
Revenge is more like what is being bandied about here!
Righteous idignation and revenge, disguised as howls for justice, by people who should know better.
If it was my son - I would be PISSED, but, until I know the background of the whole sorry situation, I'm holding back the vitriol. Like Bush going into Iraq - knee jerk reactions in these circumstances are normally fully counter productive - better to see if,in time, some good can come of the whole sorry situation!

... i'm STILL doing dumb shit ........ only accidental that i never killed anybody

[SPORK]

Kind of a point, but at 14 he wouldn't have been thinking far enough ahead to thnk about someone dying. His main thought was, "Wouldn't it be cool if we hit a car?"

Not excusing it, but the 14 year old male brain is a messed up place. If he's had no distinct, constant, lifelong instruction in consequences for his own actions his basic mindset doesn't equate stuff that he does to other people as being "wrong", or that stupidity can be fatal.

I 100% disagree with this. Being 14 less than 6 months ago, I will tell you right now that there is no way in hell he did that without knowing he could seriously injure someone.

I'm with whoever said mob justice.

[RiderInBlack]

OK, the fu*ker really pisses me off. Would love to have the stocks back so he could be publicly humiliated. Hope he does sometime and the guilt of what he has done haunts him for the rest of his life.

But, just to play Devil's advocate here,

How many of us here have acted in such a way as to endanger the lives of others?

Before you answer this, think on how other people may view the way we ride or drive,

Then those of you without "sin" (so to speak) can throw the first stone.

[James Deuce]

I 100% disagree with this. Being 14 less than 6 months ago, I will tell you right now that there is no way in hell he did that without knowing he could seriously injure someone.

I'm with whoever said mob justice.

Yes, but you are unusual in that you can spell, type, take crap from people 14 times older than you, all of whihc points to an extraordinary 15 year old, rather than the average dumb 14 year old, that I know I was myself. Not everyone is the same, not everyone hits developmental milestones at the same time. As I said it isn't an excuse but I really don't think you actually have the experience of a broad range teenage boys, from all parts of the social strata.

I'm an a Drum teacher, currently having an enforced sabbatical, and I've studied develpomental psych. I know a bit more about what makes 11-15 year old boys tick than you'd imagine.

The whole thing makes me sad, but the vigilante-ism displayed by some people here is a bit harsh, particularly in light of the fact that I socialise with the biggest bunch of hardened crims in NZ society - recidivist speeders. I'm not perfect and I exceed common sense limits from time to time. But I don;t understand a mind set that says it's OK to selectively break some of our laws, and then demand the death penalty for stupidity, when we all indulge in it ourselves.

[WINJA]

I'd be all in favour of capital punishment, if they could guarantee no mistakes.

14 OR NOT I THINK HE DESERVES DEATH , ITS BULLSHIT ABOUT 14 YO NOT UNDERSTANDING CAUSE AND EFFECT , THIS COUNTRYS TO SOFT AND WE SHOULD ADOPT A POLICY OF ANYONE OF ANY INTELIGENCE AND ANY AGE SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS.
IM SO SAD FOR THAT GUY AND HIS FAMILY .
WHO REMEMBERS THAT STH AUCK COP WHO GOT DONE FOR ASSAULTING THOSE LITTLE GANGSTER CUNTS , IMAGINE IF THEY LET HIM SORT OUT THESE SHITS THROWING ROCKS AT CARS OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS HIS WAY , IT PROLLY WOULDNT COME TO THIS, WHO CARES IF THAT COP SLAPS SOME KIDS AROUND THE COMMUNITY AND HIS COLEAGUES SHOULD OF SUPPORTED HIM

[Beemer]

Where's the Mitre 10 burglary protector when you need him? (The one who obviously knows how to deal with teenagers committing crimes!)

I'd have to say that virtually all of the 14 year-olds I've met would know the consequence of their actions. They may not realise just how serious the consequences may be, but they would have a damned good idea of the outcome. Where did they get the idea from? In the news years ago an idiot in Karori was throwing marbles at passing cars - every window smashed. A $2 coin thrown at a police car at the Basin Reserve during a fundraising cricket match shattered its windscreen. I bet this kid has thrown rocks through windows before - either to get back at a neighbour or to do over the local dairy, so I guarantee he knew that whatever he dropped that concrete block on would be smashed beyond repair.

[James Deuce]

Where's the Mitre 10 burglary protector when you need him? (The one who obviously knows how to deal with teenagers committing crimes!)

I'd have to say that virtually all of the 14 year-olds I've met would know the consequence of their actions. They may not realise just how serious the consequences may be, but they would have a damned good idea of the outcome. Where did they get the idea from? In the news years ago an idiot in Karori was throwing marbles at passing cars - every window smashed. A $2 coin thrown at a police car at the Basin Reserve during a fundraising cricket match shattered its windscreen. I bet this kid has thrown rocks through windows before - either to get back at a neighbour or to do over the local dairy, so I guarantee he knew that whatever he dropped that concrete block on would be smashed beyond repair.

That's what I said - but I guarantee that he wouldn't have thought that he would kill someone inside the car.

[SPORK]

Yes, but you are unusual in that you can spell, type, take crap from people 14 times older than you, all of which points to an extraordinary 15 year old, rather than the average dumb 14 year old, that I know I was myself. Not everyone is the same, not everyone hits developmental milestones at the same time. As I said it isn't an excuse but I really don't think you actually have the experience of a broad range teenage boys, from all parts of the social strata.

Have you heard of Upper Hutt College? Boganville Central. That's where I go to school. Every third person's smoking dope or something harder. I usually get threatend with violence once every few days.

Finally, a use for that emoticon. Anyways, while I agree that most 14ers have the mental capacity and forethought of a garden slug, they would know at least that dropping a heavy rock or whatever from a bridge would have dire consequences.

Peace out