Linked Brakes

**The Stranger:Me** · 31st August 2005, 15:22

Looking for comments from those who have experience with them.
Which bikes have you tried with linked brakes and are they good, bad or ugly?

**sir.pratt** · 31st August 2005, 15:42

Google any report/write-up on the blackbird/vfr800 combo, and you'll find all you need to know.

**Big Dave** · 31st August 2005, 15:45

Originally Posted by CaN

Looking for comments from those whom have experience with them.
Which bikes have you tried with linked brakes and are they good, bad or ugly?

Have ridden several BMWs and a Guzzi with the system.

The back brake fluid boiled on the BM650 half way through an adventure ride and was lost for the day - is the worst thing I can say.

On the others it was not at all noticable but I don't like the concept - is the best.

Taking AMPS 'ABS' Sprint ST for a burn next week - that strikes me as another superfluous item on a bike too, next week will tell.

**froggyfrenchman** · 31st August 2005, 15:46

have ridden a latemodel bmw, takes a lil gettn used to, especially if you need to brake in corners... eg usin front to come in and back to go wide no longer works. as best i can tell its a great plan. The beemer had 60/40 split combined with abs, made for good stopping and control. what are you lookn at exactly?

**Sniper** · 31st August 2005, 15:54

He rides a blackbird FFM. I take thats why you ask CaN?

**Lou Girardin** · 31st August 2005, 15:55

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Have ridden several BMWs and a Guzzi with the system.

The back brake fluid boiled on the BM650 half way through an adventure ride and was lost for the day - is the worst thing I can say.

On the others it was not at all noticable but I don't like the concept - is the best.

Taking AMPS 'ABS' Sprint ST for a burn next week - that strikes me as another superfluous item on a bike too, next week will tell.

Ask Ixion how superfluous ABS is.

**vifferman** · 31st August 2005, 15:59

I've ridden four VFRs with it on, with the best being the VTEc model, as the DCBS is more subtle and better balanced on that.
When I first got my VFR800 I found it a bit weird, as I was used to using the rear brake on the VTR as a rudder when riding slowly in traffic. It took me a couple of weeks to get used to the back brake operating the front disks as well. Now I love it, as there is a lot less dive when braking into a corner - the bike sort of squats down, with a little dive but not a lot, so the steering is still quickened up. The other advantage is that you can stamp on the rear brake pedal and it actually slows the bike down quite a bit, courtesy of the pedal operating two pistons in the rear caliper and one in each front caliper. So on wet or greasy roads, it's almost as good as ABS for slowing down without locking up the front wheel.

The big disadvantage of it is the complexity of the system, and the weight of extra components (proportioning valve, lines, mechanism on front left caliper, extra pistons). To bleed the brakes, you have to bleed each front caliper, then tie the left front arm forward to operate the valve to the rear caliper, then the rear caliper needs to be removed and turned upside down (unless a vacuum-operated bleeding system is used) as the bleed nipple is on the bottom of the caliper. Then there is a proportioning valve under the seat to bleed as well, and I think one bleeder somewhere else.

It's quite common for people to disable the DCBS system so that the rear pedal operates only the rear (and the centre piston is inoperative), and to connect the front two calipers so that all six pistons are operated by the front lever, but I don't think I'll bother, as I like the system now I'm used to it.

**The Stranger:Me** · 31st August 2005, 16:02

I got a Blackbird which has linked brakes. I believe the theory is that If you apply the front brake 10% of the force goes to the back and if you apply the rear 10% of the force goes to the front, how they work out the "force" I don't know.
I see a lot of complaints about them, but I like it, tend to be a bit sloppy and favour the front brake (more than usual), but they do stop you well.
Most of the complaints seem to centre around the ability to trail brake and some go the extent of unlinking them.
Again I find that trail braking is still effective even though x amount of the force goes to the front.
Was just wondering what the experience of others was and if the linked system is just used as an excuse any time someone screws up.

**vifferman** · 31st August 2005, 16:11

I think you're less likely to cock up with the linked brakes. The thing I forget to do is use both brakes when braking hard; if you don't hit the rear brakes you miss out on some extra braking force.

I find the back brake a bit stiff and wooden, but I dunno if that's because it was bent when I got it and still isn't quite right, or if it needs servicing, or they're all like that (it's been a while since I rode another VFR). In any case, it's heaps better than the VTR's rear brake, which was almost useless, and if I used much pressure on it, it would lock up with very little provocation.

I can't see it's a big deal - cars have had linked brakes for years.

**Motu** · 31st August 2005, 16:20

Spent a bit of time on an S3 Guzzi in OZ with linked brakes,I hated the idea,but in practice it worked very well,specially in the wet - you could hit the rear brake as hard as you liked and the thing just stopped,but too much of a brain shift for me to only use the rear brake.I only got to ride it in real corners for a day in the Dandenongs,but my riding style with a V twin means brakes are just an adjustment on corner entry,it was wasted on me,I can't see the need.

**Biff** · 31st August 2005, 17:07

I love the linked brakes on my Bird. In fact I don't really feel comfortable riding bikes without them now.

Pulling the front brake on engages both pots at the front and one at the rear, engaging the rear brake puts both pots on the rear and one at the front.

'Proper' sports bike riders don't tend to like then, but I love them. They instill confidence, allow you to brake later and harder, and you can (apparently) brake mid corner and the bike won't stand up as much. Although I strongly advise to avoid braking mid corner, unless you're suddenly faced with a stationary vehicle, large bovine, or Helen Clark's make up shed.

**Skyryder** · 31st August 2005, 18:43

The Drakes linked. Both brakes are operated via the foot pedal and as such I do not use them a great deal. Tend to brake with only the front brake prior to leaning the bike into the bend along with revs.

I don't have a problem using linked brakes mid corner but this is only if I need to readjust my speed.

The great thing about linked brakes is that if you realy have to stop in a hurry you can do so without having to be conscious of independant pressure of front and rear brakes.

Skyryder

**Blackbird** · 31st August 2005, 19:53

I'm with Biff - took a little getting used to but wouldn't be without them now.

You can still trail on the rear brake a wee bit if you overcook a corner and want to settle it down, but it's not the same as independent brakes of course. I belong to www.superblackbird.co.uk/ and this topic has come up now and then. You can buy a de-linking kit but very few people have bothered as far as I know. Join the site and ask if you need more opinions!

I did an advanced riding course a couple of years ago and the final part of the course covered learning how to brake from high speed like your life depended on it (because it will one day)! To be brutally honest, I was terrified about doing this part of the course as I had visions of going over the bars or losing the front end and following the 'bird down the road on my arse. Neither of these things happened. Despite braking with such force that my wrist joints and elbows were creaking and nuts getting smacked into the back of the tank, the 'bird repeatedly settled down dead straight and stable with no fuss at all. Couldn't wish for a better vote of confidence than that. I had no idea that a bike could brake that hard and I'd never have explored those limits had I not gone on the course.

Cheers

Geoff