When You're Hot

[Keystone19]

throttling off and leaning in will decrease the radius of the turn, throttle on and sitting up will increase the radius of the turn...

[Cibby]

throttling off and leaning in will decrease the radius of the turn, throttle on and sitting up will increase the radius of the turn...

wow keystone.. your alwasy right.. and so smart.. haha

[FROSTY:Me]

i agree with the comments about more experienced (arguably faster) riders suggestiing the less experienced guys tone it down.
Im at the point now I'm not happy to join in on KB group rides if Im in the middle.
If Im in the mood to go fast I'd rather bugger off in front or play tail end charlie.
Its not that I dont like being with you lot Its the senario outlined in the first post scares the shit outa me.

[White trash]

throttle on and sitting up will increase the radius of the turn...

Not if you've got 150 hp at the rear wrap and aren't afraid to use it.

[Keystone19]

Not if you've got 150 hp at the rear wrap and aren't afraid to use it.

not yet...

[WRT]

Gas off and lean in can overload the front, cause a wash out or run wide. As per A Twist of the Wrist, "gentle" roll on of the gas is supposedly the correct solution. 40% weight on the front wheel, 60% on the back is the ideal.

Couple of other points from personal experience - neutral throttle and slight rear brake can help "settle" the bike deeper into the turn - have used this in several scenarios myself.

And further to the Twist of the Wrist theory of putting ON throttle rather than backing off - anyone noticed that if you gas it hard coming out of the corner, you can hoist the front off the deck and yet the bike still turns the corner? This would seem to prove the point - even with the front off the deck, you wont run wide (unless you were REALLY badly off line), the lean combined with raising the front does pull you round.

[WRT]

Not if you've got 150 hp at the rear wrap and aren't afraid to use it.

Another point they raise in ATOTW . . . havent had the balls to do it as a result of going in too "hot" tho . . . for me its more a pre-planned stunt than a survival respone . . .

[N4CR]

Not sure that I agree with that. Positive power to the wheel creates a better 'bite' of the tyre, which in turn creates better control of the bike's tracking.

Second to that - works well. Most racers do that if you listen. Also a great way to get out of OFC's when you aren't already doing that .

This seems to be another possible 'ricksta' thread again so I think we should stop being negative people in public so to speak. Mabey someone can just have a quiet chat to them rather than doing this on the forums.

I have nothing against newbie advice but at times it seems like people are having a go at them - there are plenty of survival threads to search/read and in the end they can probably get a decent idea of what went wrong by themselves by reading up and analysing the situation with a little personal help, but not a thread....

[The Stranger:Me]

From talking to a few people on the rides I see a common issue which I think presents an oppertunity for some of the more experienced to assist those with less experience.

So to set the scene.
You are out on a KB ride and there are a bunch of experienced guys up the front having their fun. You are on your 250 young and bulletproof trying desperately to keep up. You know it is futile as LooseBruce overtakes you at 140kmh on one wheel and disappears around the next bend (had to keep it real aye). That next bend happens to be a right hander, and you just saw LB take it at 170+ so you can do it at 140 no doubt.
Or can you?
You enter the bend and realise that hey it is tighter than you thought and hell who put all that camber there. Hey shit look how close the edge of the seal is Yikes! you roll off the throttle hoping for enough decalleration at about the same time as you go tense bracing for the crash but you are still running wide. You keep an eye on that seal edge, after all that is the danger isn't it, that is what is going to trip you up.

I invite others to complete the storey, but lets keep at least a modicom of reality aye.

The storey continues.

First a declaration. I am NOT an experienced rider.

What can you do?
You are thinking you are pretty well farkd.

But there actually are a lot of options available to you right now.

First off make a decision not to crash, but do it quickly. Sounds simple, but if you accept that you are going to crash, guess what, you will. If you make the conscious decision to NOT crash something else will happen, you will relax. When you are tense your ability to act and react is dulled. You may know what you should be doing but you are too tense to actually take the action.

Next tear you eyes away from that seal edge. It will still be there no matter if you look at it or not, focus on the vanising point of the road i.e. the point where the 2 road edges meet, not where you would otherwise vanish.

If you are early enough in the corner when you realise your error then trail brake, but for my storey you are probably too late for that.

Take control of your handlebars with ONE hand only. Use the inside hand only for all stearing inputs. Don't remove your other hand, but use only your right hand for stearing inputs so as you are not fighting you left hand.

Apply more counterstear pressure with your right hand.

Lean your weight harder to the inside of the bend, In the case of a heavy bike like the Blackbird you may have to pull the bike down to get it lower.

The last bit of advice that I can think of is to get back on the throttle. No don't open it up, but just hold your speed. As you corner if your throttle is constant you actually loose speed. Apply enough throttle to ride around the corner.

[N4CR]

And further to the Twist of the Wrist theory of putting ON throttle rather than backing off - anyone noticed that if you gas it hard coming out of the corner, you can hoist the front off the deck and yet the bike still turns the corner? This would seem to prove the point - even with the front off the deck, you wont run wide (unless you were REALLY badly off line), the lean combined with raising the front does pull you round.

Like in that RSV promo video... the guy practically wheelies on exit while it is still leaning? Thats crazy!

[MSTRS:Me]

Lots of good stuff so far. There are also lots of other factors that come into play in the scenario. Actual speed, road surface, camber, familiarity with the road section, tyre type, bike size/weight/power, wind direction etc. This is all too much for a newbie to assimilate, so they have no doubt gone bush by now.

[The Stranger:Me]

it can (I've noticed this with the awesome power of the Avon Viper (A59 & A60) tyres I've been running), but I guess it would depend on what the tyre prefers to some degree, but more so, how far gone/hot you are already.. if you're already carrying too much speed into a corner, more power will most likely run you wider still.. But, I have taken corners too hard and just gassed it, and it pulls in.. I guess each corner has it's own merits to run to

I got to agree with applying the throttle.
But don't take our word for it, go and try it.
I NEVER coast a corner. Trail brake in, lite throttle through the corner, gently open it out.

The important thing here is to take all the points from here out and try them one at a time bit by bit in a SAFE situation. DON'T wait till you need it to learn if it works or not.

[WRT]

Tristank - yup - just like that . . . or any motogp race you watch

And CaN - fully agree, coasting a corner just feels WRONG . . . and it is very important to get your confidence up in a safe situation, can save a panic attack at the wrong moment.

[Avignon]

I'd recommend the 'lean it over' school. Lean it over, get off the side and push your knee towards the tarmac. Its surprising how much you can lean and how fast you can corner especially on modern tyres. However, id recommend riding with more caution, espcially considering alot of our roads are crap/off camber etc. Kenny Robert Snr, used to say slow in fast out, with regards to cornering. Then again he had a GP bike with a fair bit of acceleration and you've got a 250, wise advice none the less.

As for the bit of throttle, yes, a little throttle or constant throttle will settle the bike through a corner, where a closed throttle may push the front. If your a riding god (unlike me), give it a big handful of throttle and back it in - slide the rear to steer around the corner, keep it pinned, wheelslide laying a fat darkie on exit and lift it into a monster wheelie, sitting on your handlebars as you do it. On the way home dont forget to post you resigned HRC/Yamaha contract for next seasons moto-gp.

[Ixion]

I got to agree with applying the throttle.
But don't take our word for it, go and try it.
I NEVER coast a corner. Trail brake in, lite throttle throught the corner, gently open it out.

The important thing here is to take all the points from here out and try them one at a time bit by bit in a SAFE situation. DON'T wait till you need it to learn if it works or not.

Ditto. Feather the rear brake in, steady throttle through, just enough to hold speed, and rollon out.

But thing is , when it goes lavender, its all down to instinct and auto response. And for a new rider , those may be the wrong responses.

Particularly if the new rider has some years of experience driving a cage before learning to ride a bike. Which I think is one of the most dangerous scenarios out. Because in a cage, most of the time (not all) , the best thing to do when you're in trouble is brake. Even in a corner. In general, on a bike its the worst thing you can do , initially at any rate. As folks have said, countersteer , lean, hold the throttle on. But doing that instinctively , when you've only got a second to work it all out, that's what only experience brings.

Not going to comment on the other aspect, think everyone kbnows where I stand on that.