High cost of bike parts

[kerryg]

Have you checked the pricing in GN250 parts ?

Why would I? I have owned 20+ bikes over a range of brands in the past few years, all 600cc to 1200cc streetbikes, and my experience with parts was in relation to some of those. Parts for GN250s (made in China these days) might be different I suppose.

[Ixion]

Why would I? I have owned 20+ bikes over a range of brands in the past few years, all 600cc to 1200cc streetbikes, and my experience with parts was in relation to some of those. Parts for GN250s (made in China these days) might be different I suppose.

Yeah, that's what i meant. Cos they're simple bikes that have been made to pretty much the same design for donkey's years. So if the high price is dealers shafting us I'd expect GN250 parts to be dear too . (Why shaft some riders and not others) But if they're cheap then the dealers are being honest and it's cos of the design of bikes. Never had to price GN250 bits m'self, so i don't know.

[kerryg]

But the parts are still used over a much shorter production span than Euro or US bikes

Agreed, but I still believe we are getting reamed. We could probably discuss this all day and never get any clarity but here's how I guess (it is only a guess) it works: when a new model is produced by the Japanese (or the Poms or the Italians or whomever) and new jigs/dies/tooling etc are produced for that purpose, those costs are factored into the cost of the bikes based on a certain minimum number of units being produced. After that miniumum number has been produced the cost per unit reduces because some of the capital costs have been recovered. Therefore short-runs= high unit cost (think mv Agusta or Bimota or even more exotic stuff) while long-runs =lower unit cost (think Harley, Ducati, the Japanese manufacturers).The Japanese manufacturers change models a lot, but have big production scale. Manufacturers like BMW and Harley, who have big production scale AND who change models much less often must be absolutely creaming it. About which there is little to be said except "good on them", that's capitalism. If one manufacturer or other gets out of kilter with what the market will pay, the market will punish it.

My issue is not with bike prices so much aswith parts, which should (in a fair world) be reasonably inexpensive if the reasoning above is right. Who knows whether it is right , but is seems pretty plausible and cogent to me.

Here's a theory: by keeping parts horrendously expensive the manufacturers
promote sales of new bikes rather than the repair of old ones. This objective is assisted by keeping retailer margins on new bike sales LOW (which I believe is the case, 10-15% I heard?), and by setting the factory's cost for parts to the dealer at an artificially high level (AND the dealer's margin on parts reasonably high to compensate the dealer for the low margins on new bike sales). Both encourage new bike sales rather than parts sales.

That would explain why BMW parts are a bit cheaper. Long model life= lower unit cost, so the margins enjoyed on a new bike sale by a BMW dealer are possibly fatter than on a Japanese bike, so the dealer doesn't need the inflated margins on parts to keep him in the black.

Anyway, flogged that subject to death

[Sparky Bills]

Ducati parts are cheap too!
$35 for an indicator for example.

[Lou Girardin]

The modern Triumphs were built on a modular system to spread parts across a wide product range,it makes so much sense,but is seldon done.

Part of the problem is that some people think that saving, for example, 2 grammes on a brake rotor makes a difference. So the factories make those super light rotors to keep the market happy instead of continuing to use the 'heavy' ones for a longer production run.

[Ixion]

Hm.

Heres a question though.

Priced a yamaha throttle cable. Simple bowden cable. Over $80. Eeep.

Priced the component bits. Place in hamilton. About $30. What I'd expect. Bearing in mind, that I'll be paying top dollar, buying just a few foot of cable and one off bits. Cable inner and outer, two nipples, two ferrules and two adjuster thingies.

Now the guy who supplies the bits is presumably making a decent profit off them. And the labour to assemble a throttle cable can't be more than a few minutes on a production line . Took me less than 10 minutes on a one off basis. Snip, snip, thread , braze, braze , done.

Even allow 5 minutes. At a recovery rate of $120 per hour (and I'm damn sure that Yamaha wouldn't be paying that rate to whoever makes their throttle cables. That stuff is outsourced, and probably to India or China or Vietnam or somewhere. it's basically cottage industry level. No complicated machcinery, no expensive jigs. Just a pair of snippers and a gas torch). Thats $10 for labour.

So I'm looking at $40 MAX . Absolute max. With profit built in all along the line.

So where does the extra $40 come from?

[Motu]

Sometimes the system is set up to make profit on the parts - eg...in the good old days Lucas costed out all their components in a car (or bike I guess,but less money) at $25,they made a loss on that,but picked up on after sales...well,of course they would cause the product was shit,Amal did the same on carbs.This still goes on in certain cases.

It's a really complex business,and the car game is 100x the bike game.Here's another one that's happening - wheel bearings...Holden used the same front wheel bearing from the early 60s to 1995,costs truely absorbed and you can buy a set for $30.But in 1995 Holden turned over wheel bearing supply to the bearing company,they designed a hub/bearing assembly,it is supplied to Holden for no more than the original...but try to buy one,it's nearly $500 to you.I buy thousands of dollars of car parts a week,using a dozen or more suppliers,I've got a pretty good handle on what's out there and what I should be paying for what quality - when I buy bike parts as a retail customer (try and ask for trade price at a bike shop!) I have no complaints at all,they compare favourably with my game.Mind you I don't ride a fancy pants sportsbike,maybe you are paying just for the look?

[kerryg]

[QUOTE=Ixion]Hm.

Priced a yamaha throttle cable. /QUOTE]


Simple. If you want a Yamakawahondazuki (hereinafter known as YKHS) part, you have to go to a YKHS dealer. YKHS dealers work on the same retail pricing nationally (so do the other franchises so far as I can tell) so you can't go down the road and get a cheaper factory part. It's part of the deal for the dealer when he gets a YKHS franchise, one of the benefits. There are also issues if you use non-factory parts on a bike still uinder factory warranty.

If you don't mind an aftermarket part, if you can find one, you may get it cheaper. QED

[Motu]

Works the opposite for me - if I want a hydraulic hose made on site,it costs me more than one made by the hundreds for a specific vehicle (non Jap Import) Same with brake hoses,they cost me say $13,but if I need a one off it's a costly item.Of course there are standards that have to be complied with,but not with clutch and throttle cables.I'll go for a genuine cable if possible as they are nylon lined and have all the do hickies on,but have made my own for years,I still have coils of inner and outer,make my own nipples from rod or whatever is needed.

[Ixion]

Works the opposite for me - if I want a hydraulic hose made on site,it costs me more than one made by the hundreds for a specific vehicle (non Jap Import) Same with brake hoses,they cost me say $13,but if I need a one off it's a costly item.Of course there are standards that have to be complied with,but not with clutch and throttle cables.I'll go for a genuine cable if possible as they are nylon lined and have all the do hickies on,but have made my own for years,I still have coils of inner and outer,make my own nipples from rod or whatever is needed.

Just so. The one-off ought to be much dearer. That's why I haven't bothered making my own for years and years. 'Twas just not worth it. But $50 saving for 10 minutes of time IS worthwhile. Which is why I call suspect - the made-by-the-hundred item should be cheaper than the sum of its component parts. I suspect there IS a whopping big "pay for the brand name on the bag" margin in there.

[White trash]

As a matter of interest, how much do some typical Buell parts cost (I'm curious)? Say mirrors, headlight assembly, tank, whatever....just roughly is plenty good enough. Maybe my next bike needs to be a Buell

OK. Indicators, complete, DOT marked, $25. They'll bolt on anything and look quite funky with clear lenses. Deano had a set on his SP1, Motoxxx has a pair on the back of his TLR.

Nice, alloy footpegs, $35e. Get the Lightning ones (XB12S) and they'll drop your pegs by an inch, slot straight into Suzuki mounts.

Mirrors, $60 each.

[Lou Girardin]

Hm.

Heres a question though.

Priced a yamaha throttle cable. Simple bowden cable. Over $80. Eeep.

Priced the component bits. Place in hamilton. About $30. What I'd expect. Bearing in mind, that I'll be paying top dollar, buying just a few foot of cable and one off bits. Cable inner and outer, two nipples, two ferrules and two adjuster thingies.

Now the guy who supplies the bits is presumably making a decent profit off them. And the labour to assemble a throttle cable can't be more than a few minutes on a production line . Took me less than 10 minutes on a one off basis. Snip, snip, thread , braze, braze , done.

Even allow 5 minutes. At a recovery rate of $120 per hour (and I'm damn sure that Yamaha wouldn't be paying that rate to whoever makes their throttle cables. That stuff is outsourced, and probably to India or China or Vietnam or somewhere. it's basically cottage industry level. No complicated machcinery, no expensive jigs. Just a pair of snippers and a gas torch). Thats $10 for labour.

So I'm looking at $40 MAX . Absolute max. With profit built in all along the line.

So where does the extra $40 come from?

Manufacturer-Overseas wholesaler-importer-retailer. They all want a cut.

[Ixion]

Manufacturer-Overseas wholesaler-importer-retailer. They all want a cut.

Yeah, but surely the components that I bought go through the same chain ? None of it was NZ made. I can understand the "gosh it's dear for what it is ". As you say, a long feeding chain. But I can't understand why the same thing (essentially) bought as its component bits should be half the price (allowing for labour) as the same thing assembled. As Mr Motu said, should be the other way round.

[Kickaha]

I once had occasion to price BMW front wheel bearings when I owned a R75/7 that will be $80 for the pair thank you very much said the BMW dealer, so I pulled them out got the numbers and trotted off the to SKF bearing supplier and he said that will be $32 for the pair, the only difference between them was the BMW bearings came in a bag with the extra expensive BMW logo on the side and you guessed it were made by SKF

[Motu]

I used to own an International,the most expensive cardboard boxes I've ever bought....

I constantly get suprised by franchise parts being cheaper than aftermarket,and even second hand,especially suspension parts.Say 7 years ago a used VTECH dist for a Honda from Strongs would cost you $800,serious money for second hand,but new was $1800,then they dropped the price to $450 - now you can buy a brand new Vtech dist from Honda NZ for $400,they are laughing at Strongs who are being caught out by being more expensive than new.


A 525i BMW drove out my door today - the second hand VANOS cyl head we put on cost $2800,with the rest of our work it cost him $4500 for not checking the water....but he does own a BMW....lucky man.